It's not about being an "EXPERT", its about common sense. Claims of 15-25 HP, by makers of air intakes on average cars of from 100- 300HP are just bullsh*t. I posted the answers to saskins and others so that people that aren't motor heads would have a chance to see information from someone with a background in high performance. If you don't at least read or research data readily available to you (on this very forum), then you really do get what you deserve. Its become a generational issue, most of us over the age of 50 take responsibility for things we do. Many of those under that age seem to feel it is someone else's job to protect you from yourselves. CAVEAT EMPTOR it's a latin phrase that is applicable here. BUYER BEWARE!!! It's a good rule of thumb to live by. BILL

 

well i was never purchasing this system to gain 15-25 hp, i am realistic thinking maybe 5 on the high-end, i understand that manufactures over inflate claims, and most everybody knows buyer beware. i thought i was taking precautions using paypal and a credit card, but the time period has lapsed to take such action. so the purpose of this thread was to maybe get information on how to recoup some of my loses. so if all you are going to post is a big "I Told You so" you can save it, i have a mommy and daddy already.

 

Intakes are widely used in the import scene, and typically they do give you a pretty decent hp gain on a dollar per hp basis. I've installed several now on previous cars, and it's definitely something you can feel in the "seat of your pants". They work by drawing in a large volume of cold, dense air (instead of hot under hood air). Additional fuel is metered in along with the increased air flow, to maintain an appropriate A/F.

As with most mods, nothing is for free. The cost is increased under hood noise (as a lot of factory intake design is restrictive on purpose for acoustical reasons). The other downside is decreased chances of water ingestion, since it is much easier to submerge a filter that is mounted down low. I don't think there should be any debate that a well designed intake is an excellent place to start when modding a car. Even old Muscle Car advocates would agree - it's the same principle as Ram Air. Beyond that, read up on AEM's website or in Sport Compact car for more details on these. I am not going to debate the effectiveness of the mod on this car, but I would imagine that 8-10 hp (max gain) would not be a stretch for a well designed unit in this car. Generally, a 5% gain has been seen using these in the import community, among various types of cars that are popular to modify.

Many of the mods that I did on the previous car were well researched and supported by claims from my peers. But even when dealing with a known company, a leap of faith is required. I ordered an intake from Iceman years ago for a Neon that I owned. I waited and waited after putting in the order. Weeks turned to months. Finally, I called up and demanded my money back. The factory had a fire at the time, and as a result, there as a huge log of backorders. So, there's one example of a reputable company letting me down. On the other hand, I ordered nearly hand made parts for my Mazda from members on my previous forum, and often enjoyed great results. My header was hand made in PA, and supported by dyno data. It worked better than I expected. In either case, it often takes a leap of faith to get things done on a car that has little or no aftermarket support. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right? I wouldn't blame a guy for sending off a check in good faith for something that might have worked out. Seems the only thing he is guilty of is having faith in humanity. What's it going to take to restore yours?

 

You may want to check with the post office as he used the U.S. mail to rip you off. Good luck, I hate flakes!

 

Yeah, I remember some serious 'fights' you had with Saskins in this forum. To be honest, if it were legal here I'd have bought it too. Surely not for its power improvement (nothing to mention about) but for it's special look compared to the oem plastic intakes.
But that's not the point scott is talking about. Everyone expects serious conditions and good contacts when buying something (namely from a forum member).

Here again a big THANK YOU to Andrew and Dan!! Always excellent communication and support.

So you see, it has not much to do with age. Therefore: PACTA SUNT SERVANDA (latin: contracts must be fulfilled).

 

I really wish saskins bought a Mustang instead. He sounds like a Mustang kind of guy. He probably would have bought a Camaro if they were still making them. But it would have been a V6 Girlie car I am sure.

 

I don't think you could ever expect 15 hp from an air-intake! But it might sound like 15 hp louder than stock.

 

I'm not defending anyone but... I made an intake for my car and there is no way it is making 15 hp. It does have better throttle response over 2,500 rpm. I am going to try to take it to the track and run it with the stock one and the one I made to see if there is any real improvement.
It definitely feels faster but it may be wishful thinking.
I'll know for sure when i get some 1/4 numbers.

 

People often "FEEL" that the part they just paid good money for and installed on their car has increased "response" (not verifiable) and in general will attest to the part "working". This isn't new, manufactures' have done it as well. Pontiac was one of the first when they touted their "RAM AIR HOOD" on the GTO. Road & Track debunked that one 40 years ago, when they disconnected the damn intakes from the hood and ran the car without ANY intake and picked up a tenth in the quarter mile. They then ran the car with the ram air hooked up and then again with a very restrictive non forced air intake. The car ran the same with the restrictive intake as with the ram air hood. I would suggest you not take my word for it, just go to your local dragway and run with and without your hop up part.You will discover that changing filters and tubing make look good and they may make you "FEEL" like you gained something but you just don't. I have said this many times here but, its true whether you think so or not, A VERY WELL ENGINEERED AIR INTAKE WILL NOT GIVE MORE THAN 2% HP BACK. That means max 6HP at the wheels on a 300 HP car. For those of you thinking ram air will do lots more, it doesn't do anything below a 100 MPH. So unless you race or drive on the autobahn, you won't gain anything there either.By the way, you can find out how much you can "GAIN with an air intake, by running without it. Cooler outside air is slightly denser than underhood air, but not enough to matter.

 

I did feel a definite difference when I put the V8 benz airbox with K&Ns instead of the Xfires box, it idles better and has more upper end and smother response. My cost was $150. I have 28k on mine and can feel it runs much smoother.

 

hobbyman, as i showed you before, intakes can make ten plus hp at the wheels. please don't make me post ten dyno's from cars that showed that increase again, and quarter mile slips that showed .3 seconds picked up again...

 

As I recall all you showed me were FLASHED dyno readings that didn't support your contention. I have spent 40 years working with and around real RACE cars. Other than turbo's & SC NOTHING you do to the air inlet on a 100 - 300 HP production street car will produce the numbers you report. Manufactures like K&N, and many others have been making those claims for years. I wish I had a dime for all of them I've seen over the years, its easy to prove, look under the hood of ANY production street vehicle. NOT ONE comes with a K&N filter. Over the years many products have been adopted by OEM's, but ONLY those that work.

 

Hobbyman, I have to agree with you when you say don't expect much more than 2% increase with a "smooth" vs the "accordion" style intake tubes that our XFs came with. But I think the Viper is still considered a "production" street vehicle, albeit, a "limited production" street vehicle, and it's been offered with K&Ns since 1998. 1st. on the GTS-R, then in '99 on the ACR versions. I think they're standard on all the new Vipers since 2003.

In '98-'99 Dodge claimed it added 10 hp, but that's on top of the standard Vipers 450 hp which made it about as close to 2% as you're going to get. Personally, I think most of the increase came from the "smooth" intake tube that automatically comes along with the K&N "package"...Mike

 

then how do you explain the faster quarter mile times, and if you can't trust dynos. then what the heck do you trust and why are those same dynos used for tuning on the race cars you no doubt work on.

 

X'ed,

Hobbyman just seems like a cranky old man who hates the world. You and I both know that cold air intakes have shown HP gains in all cars that they have been installed on... DYNO's up the *** to prove it... Don't pay him any mind, he always starts this "Well I worked on race cars and I know"... Maybe he worked on cars that had carbureted engines and a big ole' round air filter smack dab in the center.

Now we work with MAF's, ECU's, Injection systems and components that would send an old time mechanic into a panic...

Your estimate of 4-9 hp is right on the button...

 

I wasn't aware of the Viper being available with them, but you're right it's a "Limited edition " and well above my stated limit of 300 hp. Many limited vehicles are available with things that standard production vehicles aren't.
X'ed, I never said you got nothing with a well engineered intake, I said 2% max. That could give you 1 - 3 tenths at the strip depending on the conditions. The problem is that companies often relate something like .5 - 1 full second by bolting on their part. That dyno pull you referred to was a good example. Three pulls, 2 showing modest 4 - 7 hp gains, the other (flashed) showing 11 or so which do they advertise, THE 11, and it isn't true. You should also consider that seldom if EVER do you see an article in a mag by a reputable tuner that only adds an air intake. Usually its in conjunction with other MORE involved hop ups. Generally chipping and bigger injectors. By themselves they accomplish little.
HDDP, where do I start. I don't hate anyone. I probably am CRANKY. Definitely old! You appear to have lots of money, that's cool, more power to you, I'm sure you earn every penny of it. I'm also sure you are a good driver, no one consistently goes to the track and comes home with a complete car unless they can handle it. That being said, you also appear to have very little actual knowledge about anything to do with otto 4 stoke engines. Partly because you still defend saskins when everyone now knows he is exactly what I described him as (A LIAR AND A CHEAT).
Also because you seem unable to grasp how HP is made. The fact is that whether an engine is carbureted or injected has little to do with getting air from outside the car to the carb/throttle body. Just for your own edification, COLD AIR BOXES make almost NO difference on a dyno pull. That's because on a dyno pull done correctly, the engine is just brought up to temperature with the hood OPEN OR OFF, the pull is done and the engine is then shut down and cooled off before the next pull. Unless you stack the box with dry ice or some other cooling method, you'll see little or no difference. A cold air box works by pulling moving or dead air (in the case of one being in a wheel well) while a car is MOVING at high speed. Sitting still as on a dyno produces no measurable difference. For your further info, a well tuned carb is a better fuel/air metering device then injectors. Ask any significant builder of racing engines and you'll find that's the truth. The reason you don't see them now on production cars as often as before is they are harder to maintain in a good state of tune. Bill

 

I'm definitely interested in that air box, is there a part number for that particular piece that you can give me along with the K&N numbers?

 

It's off an E500 2003+.

 

i thought it was the SL55 intake... its off a stock E class?

 

SL 55 is twin SC? I've always said off an E500 V8! Check my gallery pics.