I decided to seperate the engine cooling system from the S/C inner cooler system. There is not much room under the hood to add another overflow tank, so I started looking into getting a Odyssey PC 680 mini battery to make some room in the battery holder and put a second tank there. But looking to go cheaper and less work, I decided to buy a small cylinder shaped polished billit overflow tank with a site tube to see the level and use it for the engine system and use the OEM tank for the S/C system. What I was considering doing replumbing it where the pump would be sucking out of the reservior (where the hose from the radiator was) thru the heatexchanger, then from the pump to the inner cooler and the output from the inner cooler back into the OEM reservior to be recycled. I was looking at the way it was plumbed in the drawing robby363 posted in another post, the pump is sucking coolant thru the heat exchanger/aftercooler from the inner cooler and pumping it right back into the inner cooler. In the drawing I was assuming the tee between the I/C & the overflow tank on the suction side of the pump was for make up coolant. But accually looking at the system, the small overflow hose that "Y" together with the small one from the radiator then goes to the top of the overflow tank is on the suction side. Now here's where I'm getting confused, the small overflow hose is connected to the suction side of the S/C system, I'm thinking how in the world is the system not sucking air out of the top of the overflow tank. I thought maybe where the small hose connects it cold possibly have a tube inside the tank that goes on down toward the bottom into the coolant or maybe there's a check valve in there. I pulled the small hose off the top of the tank and stuck a small steal wire in the fitting to see if I could feel any resistance, it went in almost all the way to the fill cap and stopped. So I got a small mirrior and stuck it down the fill cap hole to see if there was a 90 where the wire stopped. I found that you can't see where the fitting come's into the tank because there is a baffle, I stuck the steal wire down the fill hole and the baffle seems to go all the way to the bottom and all the way across to the sides. Where the S/C hose connects to the bottom of the tank is straight down from the fill hole so I stuck the wire down there to see if I could feel it go into the hose. Nope can't feel the hose, (screen)? Has anybody ever seen how the inside of the OEM overflow tank is constructed? Or does anyone know how to find out how it's constructed inside with out buying one and cut it open? I'm kind of at a stand sill till I figure out how the hell the thing is constructed inside.

 

Crap, I hate it when I mis-spell a word in a title of a post because I have to see it while I'm on the board. The site won't let me edit the title or I'm not smart enough to do it.
OVERFLOW !!

 

For the surge tank separation, I'm thinking of something different then what I have been reading on this forum.

I am considering buying a stock MB or BMW surge tank that is inexpensive and retains the stock look (not one the size of our stock tank but a small one that will mount next to the radiator on the shroud) and use it for the radiator overflow/surge/fill tank.

Then keep the stock tank for the HE. While this is not the trickest race proven way to go or will it add more capacity - it will separate the two functions and allow me to use a different fluid mixture for the HE. This, and a larger HE (increased capacity and cooling) along with a better pump and a cooler thermostat should help to reduce/maintain the IAT to best/decent performance levels without a lot of re-plumbing or losing battery/cargo space.

Just my .02c

These are just some examples:
http://www.bavauto.com/fland.asp?par...07%20787%20039

Here is a nice A/M tank that might mount on the radiator
http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/...ion_tanks.html

 

I looked at several tanks that would look more like OEM, but they did not have the measurements. So I bought one that I know would fit and I'm probably mounting it in the same place you are wanting to. I'm just concerened about how the OEM tank is configured inside, it could be seperated and not just have baffle's. And that would not let me re-plumb the HE system like I would like to. What do you think of the way that I described to re-plumb the HE system? I sure hope someone will read this thread that has seen how the OEM tanks are made inside so I can move on with this project. This is the tank I bought, I think it's popular with the ricer guy's http://weapon-r.com/english/index.ph...oducts_id=5973

 

Hey Brian,

Just a quick correction to your terminology. The surge tanks on the engine are actually part of the intake manifolds. (See attached photo). Just to keep things consistent when we talk about them .

 

Steve,

That tank is popular... period. Not just with the 'ricers' but with hot rod builders, etc. Should work well.

There should be space for that inside the inner fender on the side with the pump... if you choose to 'hide' it.

Let me know if there is anything else I can answer for you.

 

I'm probably going to mount the new little tank between the right intake tube and the fan, I don't think it will look to bad there since I already have a little bling under the hood. There is a couple hole's on the fan shroud that I think will work and if it seems to need a little extra support, there is a small bracket with a threaded hole sticking out from the front of the engine past the belt. Right now my main concern is how the inside of the OEM tank is constructed, if you read through the first thread of the post, you'll know what I mean. I want to recycle the I/C coolant thru the OEM tank and possibly look into something like a heating pad, but only the opposite to wrap around it. Or maybe even have a box built for the OEM tank to sit in and fill around the tank with dry ice or regular ice to help cool things down.

 

Steve,

I don't have much to add to this thread but I would like to subscribe and keep updated.

I will ask how much you paid for the reservoir though, if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks,
SQ

 

I got it through - http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com $54.23 including shipping. It's pretty small, only 24oz. but it has a site tube to keep a check on it. If it don't work out (being to small), I'll use it on my old Stang, it's got a ugly plain white one on it that I'd like to replace anyway.

 

What size inlet/outlet are on that resivour? The factory lines are 3/4", those look kinda small and might pose a restriction on flow?
Also I found this on MB world a while back, might be helpful to know.
Also there is plenty of room in the trunk for a remote setup without losing cargo space. You just have to rip out the styrofoam on one side and relocate some electronics to the wheel well. My budget ran out on this project but I hope to have it finished soon.
Pics below

 

remote resivour progress

 

Since I'm just going to use it as an overflow for the radiator I wasn't real concerned about the inlet/outlet size, the volume is the only thing I'm conserened about. I think it has 1/2" though, I'm probably going to tap into the bottom of it for the radiator make up hose so I can make it bigger if I need to. I was measuring the hose's and they appear to be 1/2" ID, the tube's coming from the I/C are only 1/2" and all the hose's look the same size.

 

The IC plumbing connections are 5/8" ... As far as your 24oz coolant tank, it will be enough fluid... I don't know the capacity of the OEM heat exchanger, but I do know that the IC has a volume of 30oz. If you study the plumbing diagram posted earlier and the one in the manual you'll notice that the system only directly pumps thru the IC and HE and uses the coolant tank fluid as a pressure / gravity draw into the stream. This leads me to believe that very little of the coolant in the overflow tank is exchanged during each circulation cycle and the system mostly recirculates the fluid contained in the IC & HE.

Obviously the more fluid you can exchange during each cycle, the better it will disperse the heat, but also by increasing the size of your HE will help tremendously since this is where the bulk of your cooling takes place.

 

Just an idea...

Wouldn't it be easier to add a second overflor for the cooling system versus one for the supercharger?

 

That's what I was intending to do, I think HDDP must have misunderstood and thought I was going to use the new small tank for the I/C-HE system.

Originally Posted by Steve Hellums Since I'm just going to use it as an overflow for the radiator I wasn't real concerned about the inlet/outlet size, the volume is the only thing I'm conserened about. I think it has 1/2" though, I'm probably going to tap into the bottom of it for the radiator make up hose so I can make it bigger if I need to. I was measuring the hose's and they appear to be 1/2" ID, the tube's coming from the I/C are only 1/2" and all the hose's look the same size.

I've been out checking out the OEM overflow tank, trying to figure out how it is configered inside. I took a peice of bailing wire, bent a 90 about 2" long on the end and stuck it down the fill hole try to feel how the thing is sectioned off. I found that from the fill hole section there seemed to be a oval or rectangle hole 3/4" high & 1/4" to 1/2" wide to the section toward the front of the car and no access to the section toward the fender side. If you look straight down at the OEM tank considering the way the top is shaped, I think the OEM tank is divided into 6 sections, how the rest of the 5 sections are connected together . So I guess using the OEM tank to circulate the coolant from the I/C HE thru it for more volume may not work.

 

Steve, I obviously misundersttod your original posts... I thought you were going to isolate the charge air cooling system from the engine cooling system by adding the new tank to be for IC coolant only... Forgive my poor reading comprehension

Now that I understand your thoughts, I think adding an extra coolant tank for the engine is not necessary... The ECT's (engine coolant temps) never really get that high unless you are sitting at idle in rush hour traffic with your air conditioning on during a hot summer day...

What needs to be cooled more is the charge air coolant that runs thru the intercooler to reduce your IAT's (air intake temps), that will help increase engine performance (HP).

I hope this answers your question as well... The intercooler has coolant flowing thru it to reduce the IAT since the compression from the SC heats the intake air more. The charge air cooling system shares coolant with the engine cooling system via the overflow tank. But the engine cooling system really never circulates it's coolant back into the overflow tank, unless it reaches a boiling point (which is higher than normal water in a pot because of the ethylene glycol that is under pressure in the system raises the boiling point) and then it spits out the boiling coolant and steam from the radiator into the overflow tank.

The boiling point of water is 212 degrees and the boiling point of glycols mixed with water are

219° F at 40 percent concentration
222° F at 50 percent
225° F at 60 percent
increase by 40° to 45° F if a 15 psi radiator cap is used

All of the data logs I have done on the ECT's of the engine during race conditions never showed any temperatures near the boiling point of plain water, let alone with the antifreeze (glycol). This means that the coolant in the overflow tank is not being circulated with the engine coolant, except during overheating.

Just a bit of info... The coolant system capacity is:
NA Crossfire 11.8 qts
SC Crossfire 15.3 qts

This would mean that between the IC / HE and plumbing they have an added capacity of 3.5 qts.

All of my research has shown that the IC coolant temps only run about 15 degrees lower than the ECT's. This is robbing power... So if you can reduce the coolant temps running thru the IC, it will deliver denser intake air and you can increase engine performance (HP). That is why I thought we were discussing seperate cooling systems for the engine and IC.

This is a good article to read... http://jalopnik.com/cars/custom-cars...ics-122019.php

 

To finish my train of thought, since the IC coolant is not being circulated with the engine coolant, except during overheating / overflow, you need to reduce the temp of the coolant flowing thru the IC system, not the engine... It is not the cause of the problem...

FYI the coolant system is also being used for the transmission cooler and this adds more heat into the stream...

 

Back when I was looking at the Renntech & Evosport Kit's, the Evosport kit came with a tank to seperate the two systems. One of the main things I'm chasing here is to keep the I/C temp's down while doing slow driving like in town or maybe at a 1/4 track sitting around running. I figured seperating the two tanks would help any heat transfer from the engine system. So by doing what I said, using the small tank for just the radiator and using the OEM tank for the I/C, I'm taking it you don't think it would help keep the I/C temp's down. My original plan was to circulate the I/C coolant thru the OEM tank for volume, but the way it's made inside I don't think that's possible and also possibly figuring out a way to cool the OEM tank.
Thanks for taking the time to try to help me out .

 

How about trying this little experiment, it should answer some questions for all of us... Take a thermometer and measure the temperature of the coolant in the overflow tank, note the ambient temp as well... Then take the car for a spirited drive for an hour and measure the coolant temps again... I would like to see the differences...

I wish you had a SCANTOOL and PC laptop that way you could monitor the IAT's (intake air temps) at the same time... Do you have a PC laptop ? If so, I can send you my SCANTOOL, software and connector cable so you can monitor the ECT & IAT. The only thing it will not monitor is the temperature of the coolant in the overflow tank, that has to be done manually...

 

I don't have a laptop, that does sounds like a good little experiment. The only problem with taking temp measurements as you said to do, is right now my car is cleaned up and stored for the winter. You wouldn't believe the amount of salt they put on the roads up here in Indiana. When I left work one day last week I was wishing I had a camra to take a picture of the road, it had so much salt on it, it was actually white. Just looking at the HE with gap of 1&1/8" between it and the AC condencer & radiator, I don't think when the cooling fan kicks on it can not be pulling any air thur the HE. Just in my opinion the thing that would help cool the I/C & HE coolant the most would be to install electric fans on the HE. But the main problem there is there is no room to do so where the HE sits right now, I've not looked to see if it could be moved forward to make room to put fans behind it. I have talked with a radiator builder about adding a 20" wide 6" tall 3/4" thick trans cooler right on top of the HE and putting a couple fans on it, but he said the way a trans cooler was designed that it probably wouldn't help much. There is only about 3" from the back of the bumper to the AC condencer, witch leave's a guy with little option of doing something with cooling fans and a taller HE. The thinest fans that I have found was 2.04" thick, so that only leave's 1" for the thickness of a taller HE. I guess I'm back to the drawing board .