I've heard all the debate about which pulley is better and it usually boils down to the fact that the 185 doesn't produce the hp b/c of the heated intake charge which pulls timing. What if you were to use water/meth injection to help tame those temps along with getting a custom tune based on always running the meth. Cool intake charge along with additional detonation prevention (high octane of meth) with the proper tune could do wonders. There is a turbo silverado in my local car club putting down 7XX+hp and he was saying water/meth gave him another 40hp. My thoughts are that there would be big gains, I don't know if it would be quite as big of a gain but I'll let someone else with more experience chime in.

-Josh

 

Maybe not 40 hp for the Crossfire. You gotta remember the Silverado has a much larger powerplant, which is a larger potential for increased HP/TQ.

Justin

 

A lot of the SRT4 guys are getting 30-40hp out of the kits so it's not always about size of the motor.

 

I'm curious as to where you heard this information from?

I have the 185mm pulley installed with thousands of miles on it. I have an Intake Air Temperature gauge, Boost gauge and I've had my SRT on a dyno (on a 90Deg day). I was worried about this issue when I installed the 185mm (not knowing what to expect) but I now know its not an issue - - anymore then the stock pulley.

What do you consider (or have been told) is a high intake air temp?

I think a meth kit might give you some advantage on the drag strip regardless of what mods you have done to your forced induction system. I'm just not sure if meth injection would be efficient for daily use..

 

you can safely advance timing when you use alcohol injection. that is where they see the big gains with it.

the bonus is the cooler intake temps and the higher octane.

 

No, but with that they can adjust timing, change boost, things of that sort. But there's no way you can change my mind in that if you had two cars with identical mods and one with a 4 cylinder and 1 with an 8 pack that the power output would be the same.

Goes back to potential for power.


Justin

 

I have used water injection and it lowers the combustion temperature and lowers the tendancy to detonate, preventing timing from being pulled by the computer. It does not make power, just lets you push the motor longer and with limited octane. The meth can help but are going to use a bunch in the course of engine operation on the street unless you have a throttle switch.

Water does assist in removing deposits from the engine interior parts, sort of like adding walnut husks in the huey's turbine engines of vietnam.

Woody

 

Well said Waldig. Water/meth injection does not really make power on its own, but it does allow tuning to get the most out of your engine before detonation. Most of the kits nowadays can either be run off of maf voltage or the one I'm looking at is boost activated. You can set a minimum value and ramp up to full injection at any given boost pressure. As long as you stay under the minimum boost setting on the controller, you won't be injecting and therefore you won't be constantly having to add more water/meth.

 

All I'm going off is the debate on the forum as to what is the best pulley for making power. Needswings is only on a 178mm pulley but is running better times than most with the larger pulleys. I would expect the extra ~4-5lbs. of boost to provide significantly more pull, but 1/4 mile times have yet to confirm this. Did you see ANY difference in intake temp when switching from the stock pulley to the 185? I would've thought by compressing the air even more there would be a rise in temp. My main focus here is that if there was any change to the intake temps., why not use meth and drop it back down to stock temps if not below. No matter where you are, cooler temps=more power.
In the next month or so I'll ordering up a 185 pulley, heat exchanger, johnson pump, and a water/meth kit. Hopefully I can get some dyno #'s with and w/out meth. Hopefully gains will be made and I will post numbers as soon as possible.

-Josh

 

Josh,

I think you are on the right road if 1/4 mile times are your goal. I personally don't race and only a few SRT owners have actually installed the 185 so side-by-side comparisons can be hard to judge.

The 178mm pulley that NW sells is manufactured by ASP http://www.aspracing.com/frame.htm and is a stock crank pulley with the outer belt ring removed and a larger one press fitted onto the hub.

The 185mm pulley is only 4% larger then a 178 so you can estimate boost and IAT gains from that. 1/4 mile times also include a lot of other parameters, IE.. Weather, elevation, track, tires, exhaust cutouts, fuel, etc..

It's well known that you can clamp the signals from your IAT, MAP, and engine temp sensors to prevent your ECU from pulling timing. Even a stock SRT can then lay down some pretty impressive 1/4 mile times. So take it all with a grain of salt.... I've even seen videos and pictures of SRT folks removing their intake filters to improve their 1/4 mile times.

My IAT’s did increase somewhat with the 185, but not greatly - by separating my IC coolant system from the engine coolant and going with the LET HE my IAT's are very tame compared to other Turbo/Supercharged engines.

Good luck with your mods...

 

Who says meth doesn't make more power? Methanol increases the octane well over 100. Take your car to a track on a 100 degree day and compare it to a 40 degree day and see where more power is gained. Same effect with methanol lowering the temps and increasing the engine power. I see peeps at the track lower their et's by nearly a half second just by adding methanol. Now if that's not adding more hp, then there is something wrong. By not having the timing pulled, you are making more power. When the timiing is pulled, you make less power. So I still don't get it when peeps say meth doesn't make more power. ??? Probably the best answer would be.... Meth prevents you from losing power. So, I guess they're right! LOL!

 

I think you're right on with this remark. And that's also why I think it can make a huge difference for the 185mm pulley guys.

 

I think people are usually trying to justify their spending money on one size or another rather than actually using physics or compitition to settle their arguments. I've seen several members actually arguing modifications while they haven't even experianced the sensation of driving the modified versions of their cars.
I run the 185MM on my SRT and hear this argument all the time. In some worlds Bigger is just BETTER.
Why does one bring a Gun to a Knife Fight? To win. I run my car to at least 150mph a minimun of twice a week on my way into town. I drive with total confidence that the 185 was and still is the right choice.
AMG designs and builds their engines like they are going in Tanks!
The ultimate "bolt on" Mods, 185mm, Meth injection and Jerry's custom ECU tuning
Enjoy the Ride...
Mike

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I have not seen any conclusive evidence, at this point in time, that a pulley larger than a 178 is any better. Either way a pullied car is a blast to drive.

 

https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=26721

Take a vacation out to California and I'll take you canyon carving in my SRT6.

You can monitor my gauges and decide for yourself.

 

You forgot the Needswings intake.

 

That's a nice time, but still not the conclusive evidence I was looking for. I wanna see a 178 and 185 line them up at the strip and see what happens. I don't see how you taking me caynon carving will make me believe the 185 is any better? Not Like I would really be able to feel the possible 10-15 extra horsepower over my 178? I am probally going to the track next friday so if anyone in TX with a 185 wants to come over to Shreveport Louisiana we can line them up and see what happens. I'm not expecting any great numbers from my car, becasue the temps will be in the 90's, but at least we will be under the same DA.

 

Because you don't canyon carve - so you don't appreciate the instant power the 185 makes when you stab that accelerator and RIP down the road only to get hard on the brakes and pitch into the tight turn - staying in your lane ...and then stab that accelerator again....brakes - accelerator - brakes - accelerator.....

In a drag race - once you launch you just go straight and hang on, but canyon driving that requires your SC to build up PSI over and over and over again --- that's really the true beauty of the 185 pulley....IMHO

 

This is a good point. Even IF the 185 doesn't make any more "peak" power than the 178 (I believe it does, but I'm just theoretically speaking here) the 185 will make power SOONER, all day long. The increased drive ratio not only spins the supercharger faster at redline, but it also spins the super charger faster across the board. That means the supercharger builds boost sooner... this makes more low end torque. I'm running the 178+Code3, but since I haven't dynoed my car yet, I can't "prove" that the car makes any more "peak" horsepower over the 178 only. However, I can tell you that under high load, I see about 12psi at 2000 RPM. I guarantee nobody is doing that with only a 178.

 

Quote: Originally Posted by BlUEMDsrt6 You forgot the Needswings intake.

I didn't forget the intake I just don't drop name brands.
There are alot of intakes in the world, hell I made my dual
intake an I will assure you that my dual is capable of drawing
more air than the "one everyone talks about"...
This world needs more people willing to fabricate and experiment
on their own!
Enjoy the Ride...
Mike