I'm glad it's all ficticious. If you were double clutching a modern synchro'd tranny like a big rig from the 60's I'd have to take your keys away.

 

Synchros wear out. Then what?

I always double clutch the down shifts. You should try it. You would be amazed at how much smoother they are.

roadster with a stick

 

It may be smoother but it's much slower and therefore less sporting.

Since that stinkin movie Fast and Bi-Curious came out I've heard lots of people tossing "double clutch" out more than ever before. Many of them haven't got a clue what it is.

Clutch in.
Move shifter out of gear.
Clutch out.
Clutch in.
Move shifter into gear.
Clutch out.

Not a very common procedure.

 

You don't really drive a stick shift do you?

I have double clutched since my first car driving experience Circa 1955. As for speedy transitions, ask anyone who has had the pleasure of running with me thru the Dragon.

 

Come on now, Franc. Transmissions have synchros now, unlike back in the days of rum-running and prohibition!

 

700,000 miles with sticks & I've never double clutched even once....I'll have to give it a try. But if he's been doing it all along...there's probably a muscle memory path been created that he can't overide?

I hate to show my stupidity but is there something more to it than the sequence he described?

 

Yes there is, it's called technique'

Yes, there is a memory path. The result of which is that my 6 spd shifts smoothly and automatically.......unless I think about it.

Unlike my wife's SRT which sometimes surprises me when it shifts, I know exactly when the engagement occurs. It is intuitive and very precise, unless I think about it.

roadster with a stick

 

Seriously, Franc, I'm betting that many years of habit have more to do with it than actual utility. I used to drive a stake-bed truck for work (many years ago) and it had to be double-clutched. I had to correct myself when I jumped back into my Mustang for the drive home. Not that double-clutching will hurt anything, it's just unnecessary and makes your shifts take longer.

 

I don't double on the up shift, which is where dbblcltchin' would be an issue for speed. I only dbbl on the down shifts. Especially when aggresively driving at high speeds.

Try going 6 to 4 or 5 to 3 without it and I bet I can beat you thru the gears.

If you drive european like I do, then you will find more control and more power out of the turns using the engine for braking more than the brake pedal. To do that you will need to go 4 to 2 on the Dragon and 6 to 4 on Arkansas Rte 7 @ 150 MPH.

My 75 Starfire V6 had a Muncie four speed. Synchros still worked after 200,000 miles in all the gears, including first.

Don't take my word for it. Try it yourself or ask those who have seen me do it. Powershift when going up, dbble clutch when going down.

 

I'm right there with you on the engine breaking. Even in an automatic, engine breaking is your friend, especially on the Dragon.

As for power shifting up and skipping gears, I'm pretty skeptical. Skipping them on the way down can be very useful, but I haven't found a lot of use for skipping on the way up.

Well, now, wait a sec... driving my Mini, which is a 6 speed, I do notice that I will skip on the up side more often. But definitely not on a five speed. There's too much room between gears for it to be real effective for a five speed. The Mini's gears are very close, so skipping can save you a shift as long as your powerband is wide enough.

 

There is usually no advantage to skipping gears going up when power shifting. Did I say that? Sorry.

roadster with a stick

 

Franc, I'm with you 100% on this. My first car back in the '70s had a manual gearbox (full synchro) and my father taught me how to double clutch when downshifting. I did that for 200,000 miles on that car without a single hiccup out of the gearbox. I did the same for another 150,000 miles with an E30 BMW - still no gearbox issues. My Miata, same thing. I see no reason to change with the Crossfire. I do plenty of canyon runs and the process has never held me up. Plus, with the Magnaflow exhaust, it just sounds wonderful!! And yes, I double clutch even while doing the ol' heel and toe.

Our house is basically on the side of a small canyon, and as I come down the main road in 5th at about 65mph I'll get hard on the brakes and roll my foot as I double clutch down to 4th, then 3rd as I slow to turn into the neighborhood. Our house sort of overlooks this intersection and with the house windows open my wife can hear me coming home - heck, even the dogs know the sound of my car approaching!

Yeah, dad may have been a bit old school to teach me this technique, but he grew up in Belgium and did some racing before immigrating to the States. He hung out with a certain Paul Frere right after WWII - Google that name if you've not heard of him. My dad never pursued racing to anywhere near the level Paul Frere did, but they both cut their teeth at Spa Francorchamps. Dad new how to control a car!

 

I love the sound made when double clutching. It just screams that you and the car are mated.
Perhps those who don't care to do it are fine with doing things simply, perhaps the heel toe thing is a hard technique, or perhaps it is a walk and chew gum thing.

It seems logical that maximizing the energy availabe improves the overall speed of the vehicle over the ground. Losing energy to the application of brakes converts momentum energy to worthless heat and is a wasted opportunity.

This is how one can drive an underpowered car on a twisted autocross and amplify their resources to beat a higher powered car.

I do it all the time.

As I recall, so did Paul Frere

roadster with a stick

 

Oh please! Double-clutching has NOTHING to do with amplifying resources. I totally agree that engine breaking is the way to go and that using the brakes is a waste of energy. But double-clutching has nothing to do with either one. It is simply your preference on how to shift down. It adds no advantage to single-clutching when downshifting. In fact, all you're really doing is allowing the engine more time to drop in revs to better match the lower gear as you down shift. That can be done without double clutching.

 

Tom, you are welcome to believe what you want. No reason to get your undies bent.

Double clutching allows you to line up the synchros faster. Plain and simple.

Making the rear wheels do the braking frees the front wheels to steer with less resistance. Again, plain and simple.

The faster you can downshift, the sooner you can put the momentum energy of the vehicle into the flywheel. Double clutching lets you do that far smoother because it doesn't depend entirely on the synchros to do it.

You are not allowing more time for the engine to "drop" RPMs because when double clutching down, you are increasing the engine rev's to match the crankshaft speed to the master cluster gear assy. This is where the sprint booster helps because it allows a quicker engine acceleration from the inputs to the throttle.

That's what the heel/toe is about. Because while you are downshifting to slow the vehicle, you generaly want to use or at least cover the brake pedal.

There is a Streetfire video on here somewhere that shows a true expert at the process. Recently posted. It takes a lot of work effort to do it as exampled by the video. For what reason would any driver do it if not to improve performance?

We are not talking about "Ram Air" here or "turbulators" we are talking about true performance enhancing techniques that are used all the time by drivers who prove time and time again the value of double clutching downshifts.

Now, please cool your jets a bit and think through the process.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/heel...ehan_57431.htm

roadster with a stick

 

My my my...for a fantasy story, this sure is turning into a real debate

So I guess you are planning a GCG trip down that way? Here I was thinking about getting a group to go to Steelville for an over night with a concert by Poco. Guess that may be a fantasy trip too.

 

Franc, my undies aren't in a bunch. I'm just calling BS on the double-clutching as a performance enhancement over single clutching.

And you are correct. I misspoke about dropping RPMs when down-shifting. I don't know what I was thinking when I typed that. RPMs will only go up when you down-shift.

 

No worries.

Some people think a sprint booster is a performance mod, some think MB stickers are.

 

Don't start on my stickers!

 

213,000 miles on my Dodge and never a double clutch. The transmission was fine when I traded it in.

I had a 4 gear in the hot rod for several years. Never a double clutch in it. I'd slam the gears up or down and hammer 700+ ft/lbs of torque through the old school 18 spline New Process 833 and it never once complained. It looked new inside when I sold the tranny.

I'd love to take my hot rod back through some of those roads. We were on them with the Hot Rod Power Tour a few years ago. It's a beautiful drive.