So as not to take away from Woody's CAC fix...I thought I'd break this out to generate a discussion on a cleaning technique for the Charge Air Cooler (CAC)....

picked up from woody's thread here...
https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...eh-bunkey.html

xman03 made the comment you wouldnt notice the difference....

xman03 - I beg to differ....our bodies are very astute at detecting the slightest changes or deviations from the norm....
People are repeatedly remarking about the difference between a stock intake and a CAI....and then from a CAI to a DCAI....
the DCAI is probably responsible for 8-10rwhp....= 2-3%.
but they also feel the grunt in going from stock to a CAI ......
.....and have even noticed the diff between a CAI and DCAI...
those lesser differences have gotta lie somewhere less than 2-3...say 1-5-2% improvement.
Well - thats what we are talking here - at least 5 rwhp.....
So I reckon you'd notice it - and there's always the placebo effect - so in that case you gotta feel it regardless.... hey

We - gotta work out a solvent you can mist into the Y-piece and take it up to at least 4000rpm to suck all this gunk out.

hmmm.....
when you think about it - more importantly I guess - what would be a suitable solvent and yet wouldnt hurt the teflon screws in the SC or effect valve seats at high revs...

 

And don't overlook that it also has to pass thru the catalytic converters, if you still have them on - they ain't cheap to replace if they get all gunked up.

 

Chemtool cleans everything!

Worst case you'll think it's clean and go back to happy camper..

 

Iam thinking water with some soap in a mist while driving ( under load). Woody

 

Don't forget to rinse afterwards..

I don't see even the slightest of soap residue as a healthy additive..

 

maybe some water with a little methylated spirits added
that wouldnt have any nasty residues apart from the gunk you clean out.
I'm sure if woody filtered the cleaning fluid he got and let it dry on the filter paper - it might be only a gram or so - but obviously still has a significant impact.
or
injector gleaner maybe....???

Delivery.....if you didnt have a patient buddy...I was thinking of one of those pump up "weed killer spray bottles - they also come in the "improved backpack" version holding several quarts (liters) - but if using injector cleaner - probably the smaller the better.....you could set the car on idle...start the spray.....then go and sit in the car and rev 'er up - and do that for 5-10 minutes whilst ocassionaly giving the pump a few strokes.

Obviously after installing one of Woody's/Needswings oil catch can gismos - if you didnt have an oil catch can installed - it would just mean a 3 monthly clean rather than an annual one.

But...then ....some may be inclined this way - if you were familiar with doing it....how long would it actually take to clean as per a remove/replace - as part of a 10,000mile service? Maybe the same interval at which you change your air filters. The complication here (aluminium parts) is thread damage, gaskets etc.....and of course your time.

I must correct my original reference - you wouldnt obviously spray it into the Y-pipe, you'd spray it into the throttle body...

 

1. What you're referring to.. commonly known as a butt dyno is a joke, without going to a dyno/track, g-tech or dynolicious will be able to tell if a mod actually did anything 100 times better than the butt dyno.

2. A difference between a CAI and a stock intake is right around the margin of power difference that we would able to detect ourselves.

3. You will gain exactly 0 whp with a DCAI over a single CAI. For one intake to give more horsepower than the other, a few things need to occur: better placement of the air intake point to get cooler air, better filter element, the lesser intake creates vacuum at full throttle and thus limiting the air flow.

None of these are true with the dual over a single, you're paying $800 for just the look. If a 1000whp Supra can get away with a single pipe intake.. I think our 'monsters' can too. Similar concept on so many cars with four bangers and V6s that have dual catbacks that splits from one outlet past the cat... all about the look, in reality single exhausts tend to flow beter and provide more gains as the exhaust gases have a straighter path to the muffler. With a single CAI the air would travel quicker from the intake point to the TB thus having less time to heat up in the piping and the air at the elbow would have a much smoother flow than a dual having two flows coming from two sides, sort of like merging traffic. If this was not the case, I'm sure NW would provide a dyno chart comparing the single vs the dual.. obviously they won't as they make way more margin in the dual so why discredit their own product.

All this talk is about the air that has not been compressed by the charger, the denser the air is at this point the denser the charged air will be once it passes through the compressor. After that it won't make a difference at all as demonstrated by the ice box project that lowered temps significantly and provided poop in gains.

Here is a real dual intake on a Viper with a dual intake manifold, drinking with a straw split into two at the end won't make you drink faster lol.

 

xman03 Now I have got to call you out.

1. Drinking with two straws is much easier and lots faster. Done it lots.

2. On the same day, same dyno, same car, and the same hour I tested my DCAI design ovet the CAI; before Rob adopted it. It decreased the inlet pressure loss by 1 PSIG and gave my car a 25 HP gain below 2500 rpm. The dyno charts are in my gallery and the photos of me uncovering the second inlet made the test easy to go back and forth. That is 1 PSIG at the throttle body inlet when I was using one TB> THE DCAI is for more power at the low end and street response. All friction losses are additive and therefore to be avoided.


3. I am running TWO throttle bodies now to evaluate the response and power gain, need to get to a dyno, been overcome by events for now. But two throttle bodies open twice as fast a one and the off idle response is proof, there is a utube test of this on my site.

Allow me to be pisssed about you posting as if you have some knowledge of the inlet and its benefits. I have done extensive testing and even cross coupled my intakes to reduce the restriction of the pipes coming up from the wye connector at the innercooler outlet. Further I have put out my videos to prove or disprove my beliefs, currently going to prove that a single pass parallel IC gives better cooling with one of my supercoolers. You might do some reviewing of the work that has been done, leading to the development of the CAI , the DCAI, the oil separater, and supercooler that have been sold to the forum. I even tested and adopted the vented hood for better cooling as I need it when driving WOT up to 60 seconds on the autocross track.

WOODY

 

Thank you for the glamorous display of the red combined with a font used by a school girl. Now I need to take a deep breath because I still can't stop laughing at the 25whp gain below 2500RPM meaning that you made well over 50 ft/lbs of torque gain below 2500RPM hahahahaha.. wow do I really need to comment further just how ridiculous this sounds? The simple explanation is that full throttle was given earlier in the second dyno and if there is a spike that is due to the torque converter locking. You're not going to make 50 ft/lbs gain under 3K rpm on our massive 3.2L V6 with the same boost by having a second aluminum pipe with a filter on there, just imagine how much added boost you'd need to run to sustain an increase of 50 ft/lbs of torque even in the lower rpms. Godspeed to you and your 100whp intake. Seriously, majority of this forum is making well under 400whp from an averaged sized motor, you do not need a second TB (two TBs open at the same speed as one TB last time I checked) or even an intake besides the look factor. This intake design is as simple as it gets being a straight shot after the elbow, I talked to a few of my Supra friends about this and they were laughing their asses of for a good reason.

 

oh oh.....chill guys.....

 

Some people know everything. Fine, talk to your supra people, I ll not comment further.

Bye Bye.

Woody

 

I never claimed I know everything but please do comment further about your gain of 50+ ft/lbs of torque gain under 2500k RPM with a second intake pipe over just one. You must have been getting crazy amount of air and 'that boost' must have been off the charts with a linear supercharger. Good to know because I was that close to ordering a single this week.. glad to know dual provides more TQ/HP gains under 2500k RPM than even a 185mm pulley over stock... lmao. On the other hand.. yeah maybe you shouldn't comment further, and possibly put your comment about your massive gain in your sig for future reference.

 

Wow this is some heated stuff.
I will add this. Needswings makes quality parts. I had his single cai on my srt6 that has run an 11.86 so yes you can make power and use the single. I just converted to a needswings dual. Is it faster? I don't know yet. Is it cool? Yes
Is it quality? Yes
Does it look bad a$$? Yes

 

I fully agree with you, I just think it's silly to expect any gains with it and when somebody claims a gain of 50 ft/lbs of torque under 2.5k rpm over a single.. which is more than a pulley/tune.. What do you even say to that?

 

I'm sorry, but do you just practice real hard, or were you born an asshat? It is one thing to debate
the merits, or lack of, in some design. It is quite another to be pompous and derisive to the point of
acting like a jerk.

 

Bumpity....

 

So I guess no one other than me is a fan of Chemtool Carb Spray Cleaner?

 

Here is some historical data related to the development of our cold air inlet systems and their gains as seen on a mustang dyno. Enjoy the data, this was the development level about 4 years ago.

My baseline with a stock pulley and single CAI.

Power at 2000 rpm is about 80 HP and 190# FT torque



Here are the results during the testing of the DCAI gains using only a code 3 pulley

This first test is with my DCAI installed and one inlet covered with a thick poly bag so that only the original ( passenger side ) is flowing air.

Power at 2000 rpm is about 95 HP and 240 # FT torque




The second mustang dyno chart shown here, is run hot and just 5 minutes later with both of the DCAI inlets open and contributing to the power gains.

Power at 2000 rpm is about 120+ HP and 325 # FT torque

The DCAI is a tuned intake to reduce the 1 PSIG restriction I found while testing the CAI at WOT and near 6000 rpm. The greater volume is in part responsible for the torque peak beginning at 2000 rpm. This is good news for street driving as more low end torque is available during normal engine / driving speeds.
Its all about the area under the curve, torque and HP.




This is the engine as it appeared at Carlisle last summer with cross connected intake manifolds and DTB inlet.



I have reached my design goals of creating a high torque curve that is flat from about 2000 to redline, yippie

Weekend Woody

 

It seems that xman has been talking to the wrong Supra riceboys....

Dual Intake for Stock Twins

From "Snap" on the forums...

Well, here are the results of the Dyno testing done this week. Needless to say, the numbers were quite remarkable.

The test was conducted on a 93 MKIV auto with a custom downpipe and Greddy SP2 exhaust, and BCC being the only mods on the car. Still through a factory sidemount. Torque converter was locked. This was with factory boost settings, no controller.

Bottom line shows a basic intake, through the stock MAF with factory twins piping. The middle line shows a basic intake with the MAF removed. You can see a pickup of about 21 hp with just removing the MAF from the system.

With my dual intakes installed on the top pull we picked up an additional 22hp for about a total increase of 43hp over the base! I was pretty damn surprised to tell you the truth. I was expecting about a 20hp gain overall, 43 extra hp was just crazy. The turbos were working quite efficiently with the extra freedom. Not only that, but the turbo's no longer have to work so hard to produce good power. I did not have a boost guage in the car, so I'm not sure of the boost levels, but I'm fairly sure it was probably 1. bar base and had increased to 1.4 or 1.5 bar with the dual intakes. I expect probably another 40-75 hp with the boost turned up. Remember this is through an AUTO, remarkable what the right mods can do for the stock twins.



Remember that these numbers were seen on lagging TURBOS which are lower in pressure then our on demand higher pressured SUPERCHARGER which makes a gain of 50 ft/lbs of torque under 2.5k rpm over a single very conceivable.

I have to side with Woody here.

 

Id like to add to the Cleaning Charge Air Cooler... discussion and get back on thread; that I am convinced some spray into the intake is going to do little for cleaning the IC.

I used strong soap and hot water, then carb cleaner, then lacquer thinner flush using the leaking air bubbles to stir the thinner - Two application of this. Finished up with Acetone solvent, again filling the IC and bubbling it to get out dirt and oils. My lacquer thinner ( 1/2 gallon) looks like coke in color. OH yeah forgot, after the soap, I used a strong aluminum cleaner intended to clean and brighten A/C coils - stuff bubbles and foams with the strong interaction to aluminum.

VIDEO0056 - YouTube

So if we have any cleaning going on it will have to be a solvent, and Iam thinking lacquer thinner introduced after the SC. I dont wish to find out if there is any interaction, but after the SC would be ok. There is no way to introduce cleaners YET in this manner, so we have to explore other options and rely on the Oil separator / catch can that I did so long ago.



Piece of trivia, the catch can was originally formed out of CAI tubing cut-offs.


The link below has info about cleaning IC also buried in all the data. Seems to be a rule of thumb: 10 degree outlet air temperature rise F per PSIG of boost out of a screw supercharger.

I posted a section that has lots of intercooler info history which may be of interest to you.
https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...formation.html