Some photographic evidence that the pulleys LENIN and I bought were from a different manufacturing batch and had at least some differences.

These photos and text are from Rudy's original thread post #1 Note the wear on the rivets showing on the 10,000 mile pulley AND Rudy says that the new production will have recessed rivets.

https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...tml#post689303

New pulley on left, my 10,000 mile used one on the right.



Again, new pulley on left, my 10,000 mile used one on the right. Something to note is the newer production pulleys will have the rivets recessed so they are not exposed to the clutch. This was something we were well aware of during testing and with it being a less harder material, didn't affect the outcome of testing.

Now look at these photos from post #164 in that same thread . . .

https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...tml#post703406

These are photos of one of the newly manufactured pulleys just ready for Rudy to distribute. Note the rivets are recessed into the clutch face.



Now look at the images of my failed pulley . . . Note the wear on the exposed rivets . . . Clearly these rivets were not recessed as on the pulleys that were distributed by Rudy.



And this photo of LENIN's failed pulley . . . not such clear evidence as on mine but it appears that the rivets on his were somewhat exposed to wear too so probably not recessed rivets on his failed pulley either.



My research continues . . .

 

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My fiancé has a $30K engagement ring I put on her finger, you think I care whose name is on the title? Looks like I got to you though. And try choosing the correct words when attempting to get your point across...intelligence is not the same as knowledge. You questioned our collective intelligence, not knowledge, showing your lack of both. Keep on keepin on ******. Your the one no one will miss when you kick the bucket....which can't come soon enough.

 

Chuk, that is my point. We are talking about two different pulleys....the Karman is a 62, the EC is not. It is 61.9 and is referred to as a 61. Karmann is steel, EC is not. I still think the backing plate failure looks to be from the rivets cracking that material between rivets. I think at this point, Dave got it wrong by having the heading 62mm failures. Bob is on the right track, and I know Rudy has ran the original pulley thousands of miles with no failure. Something in the manufacturing had to have changed or inspections weren't adhered to. Standing by.....but, lets keep it to the point and please know which pulley you are referring to. EC stands behind their products and it looks like our Karmann builder is trying to do the same......

 

Well 180 at lest you can cut and paste...besides that it is clear from comments made by MANY members that you are a jerk. I am sure your knowledge on these cars are unmatched by many and to that I wish we could enjoy learning from you HOWEVER it is simply sad you have to talk to people with such disgust and disdain in your tone. Your attitude has brought many arguments out of people and I wonder if that was or is your intent. As far as you no longer being able to view posts on the FB you are the only one to blame and as far as the LOSER bit you posted again only you are to blame for your lack of respect towards others. You are the poster child for cyber bully and unfortunately as you can see most of us don't tolerate it very well. So now that you have basically locked yourself out from viewing "what the newest and latest" on FB I guess your days will be shorter, maybe you can join a class on social skills toi make up the time. Wish things could have been different but you dug your own ditch.

 

Doc, Chuck(ThumperSRT-6) has a Karmen 62 bought directly from Rudy. He tested it with a magnet and nothing. Tested it on a few other parts and stuck, but not to the SC pulley. That's weird considering it should by all means stick to hardened steel. Hopefully that clears up some confusion. But you're correct about the backing plate being the problem for the Karmen pulleys not bought directly from Rudy. RED DOG has a valid concern about them getting an "off" batch piece. They definitely look different and the failed pulleys have noticeable friction marks on the rivet heads.

 

I am not the one confused, but when people tell me they have failures, I just want to know what failed. Bob has been up front and I have seen his photos. I know what the pulley is made of, and I know how hard I have ran it. They aren't factory made, and they can fail as the stock pulley can fail. Bad mouthing people who make parts for us isn't the thing to do here, and especially when those same providers go out of their way to correct the problem. Those of us that push the limits understand that and it isn't for thefaint of heart to run these pulleys. Dave just needs to stick to his own car and his own way of driving it. I appreciate the concern, but I know as well as others know what we are getting into when we decide to push the limits of these cars. I still want to hear about the failures, but only the Karmann pulley failures in my case. That way I know what to look for if mine decides to start to come apart. I will pull the pulley completely off this weekend as I get the roadster ready for the dragon, and hell, I might even bring it with me for a Saturday libation discussion session over a pulley and a drink.....lol

 

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This thread contains a lot of useful discussion but the personal attacks on each other regardless of who threw the first punch are not needed
Continue with the discussion of the pulley failures but any more personal attacks will be deleted and the thread will be closed

 

I raised the alarm because the problem was said to be a Karmen pulley, now I'm getting **** for trying to help. OK have it your way. I'll erase all my posts here on this thread and let you figure it out.

 

Thanks Gary, but at this point, if someone has info on the Karmann pulley, just PM please.... I don't care about facebook, and Dave is Dave.... Grow a pair and let's move on. When I get his age, I will certainly be just as bad I am sure.... Just a warning....lol Hell, it's like a friend of mine told me the other day when I warned him he would get in trouble if he did his paperwork a certain way. His response was, I am F'd anyway, what can they do to me? My friend in dying of lung cancer. He had a valid point. Life is too short fellas, time to move on......but, tell me about the damn pulleys....Karmann only......

 

Trying to help is one thing..... but there are two different pulleys and problems out there. I didn't ask you to erase anything, only to clarify which one we were talking about. Not taking the bait this time...do as you wish. But the name calling isn't going to fix the pulley problem....the manufacturer has to do that. And calling them out isn't going to help either. It is what it is, and those of us who have vested interest in the pulleys will get answers rest assured.

 

Look Doc, the 62mm Karmen pulley was specified by name on FB, not 61mm or 61.9mm. I guess I should have taken everything on that site with a grain of salt.

Chucky Cheese got on my case when I asked what he had done to merit the CICCI award, my money went to CICCI and I thought that I and everyone else should be told of his exploits that merited the award. It's not the Nobel prize but still.
Chucky C is a mod on FB so he kicks me off the FB site, even though I had never posted there. Guess he loves the power, what does that tell you?
I even got **** from the CICCI treasurer, she will not see any dues from me next year.

 

Dave your knowledge and experience is always appreciated so please don't think it is not.
I have even invited you to join the Facebook page. However your disdain towards others whether it be Chuk or someone who cannot use the search feature is no longer amusing. Actually, it was not Chuk who put the decision to make the Facebook page "Closed" to a vote. It was me. I put it to a vote of the admins and it was a unanimous vote. It was not only because of you. So don't feel honored except in the fact that you were a straw on the proverbial camels back. There were several other factors involved as well. Such as people copying members pictures and claiming the car is theirs as happened to Gary Wemple. There is even another site for Crossfires that took three of my pictures and to this day they still use one of mine as the profile picture. Then there was the fact that anything posted on the site by a member could be seen not only by the Crossfire group but all of the posters friends and family who could care less and did not want to see Crossfire posts.

So with that said or written actually, I hope that the personal bashing can be left in the JR high schools and for the sake of those that have SRT6's and are concerned about the possibility of a pulley being launched through their hoods this pulley issue can be resolved as a group who all love the same thing - Our Crossfires

 

Some additional follow up . . . I received a prompt response from Khang Vo . . .

The material composition of the grooved part on all of the Karmen 62mm pulleys is stainless steel . . . not hardened steel. Sorry for my prior incorrect references to "hardened steel". The important fact is that they are NOT aluminum.

Also to ease the minds of most of you using the Karmen 62mm pulley that were from the production run purchased directly from Rudy . . . Khang Vo confirmed that those pulleys Rudy distributed were an "improved" version . . . different from the original "test" pulley and a limited quantity of originally produced pulleys.

I am not aware of ANY of the "improved" pulleys (the one's Rudy distributed) failing so you guys running those should have have restored confidence in the quality and reliability of those pulleys.

I think this new information pretty much closes out this topic. Unless I discover something of additional importance, I am ending my research on this . . .

 

Some pictures from my pulley collection. From left to right. EC 61.9mm, Karmen 62mm and MB OEM.
The Karmen pulley is a replacement for my failed pulley. I do feel a slight recess of the rivets but it is less than the EC and OEM. Is it enough? My other concern is the space around the rivets. There is non around the rivets on the Karmen pulley and there is a visible space around on the EC and the OEM. Is this space around rivets needed for any expansion of the metal? Can the lack of space around the rivets compounded with the fact that they are not recessed far enough away from the clutch plate cause excessive heat and premature failure?

 

GREAT INVESTIGATIVE WORK!! At the end of the day we all want the same thing and that is to enjoy our cars and our friends we make here. This is a great place to share our issues and to come together as a team at finding solutions.

 

I have been following this thread cause I'm in the market for a pulley. I thought that Stainless steel was softer or more brittle than steel. I was told that you could not use a Stainless bolt in a high stress situation. SS bolts have around a grade three rating. Could a thin wall on a SS pulley, under stress, sheer like the one in the photo? Just a thought.

 

WOW . . . if you're asking me I just don't know. Suggest you copy everything in your post including the photos and e-mail it to Khang Vo. He's the prevailing expert on these pulleys.