I purchased my black srt-6 2 weeks ago with only 450 miles on it. There are water spots stained on the car around all the curves and crevices that typically spot. It looks like someone washed it with really hard water or maybe these are calcium deposits. I have washed it twice so far and they do NOT scrub off. You can even scratch the spots with your fingernail and it does nothing. It looks like they are baked on, like the car sat with these spots in a showroom for a year....which it might well have

I just purchased a Meguires clay bar and wax. I was hoping someone might have some ideas. And should i attemp to clean the spots off before clay bar and wax, or will these 2 procedures remove the spots?

 

Clay all the way.

My other opinion: Don't bother waxing. This is a new car.

 

Try a one minute soak with distilled vinegar on a paper towel. Wash that off, then polish with porter cable, white pad, and any good finishing polish

 

Well,im not sure who they let detail it the first time.

There are noticeable scratches on the rear bumper, what looks like sap or overspray of somekind on the entire car, and swirl marks that stand out badly in the sunlight. I guess i was hoping the wax would fill the scratches and swirls and make them go away or less noticeable at least.

The owner of the dealership said the car was new and had never even been washed. When i recieved the title it was in a previous dealerships name, carfax verified 2 owners, and obviously it had been "washed", if thats what you want to call it.

 

Water spots can be a tricky thing. A wash with a cup of distilled white vinegar in a gallon of water might do the trick, it might not. A clay bar might do the trick, it might not.

Vinegar will help to neutralize and remove mineral deposits, to a point. Clay will remove any bonded surface contaminants that those mineral dposits might have left behind. But there is a third scenario, and it's not good. Fortunately, it's also not real common. There is a possiblity that whatever was in the water and subsequently left behind could actually etch the paint. I had to deal with this on a Corvette last year and the only thing we did not do was to wet sand the affected areas and then buff out the sanding marks. I know that would have done the job, but the owner was terrified of the process so we held off. We managed to minimize the appearance with some heavy polishing using a wool pad on a rotary polisher with some fairly aggressive compound. It was a total pain.

Again, this is very rare, but it does happen. I would do the vinegar/water wash, then clay, then go at the whole vehicle with a good paint cleaner, then wax it. If yoiu can find a good detailer in your area you might want to pay to have thing taken care of by a pro. Keep in mind, that the guy who charges $100 at the local full service car wash is probably NOT the guy you want touching your car. He's likely to attack it with an old wool pad on a rotary, instill a bunch of holograms and swirls, then just cover them up with a heavy glaze and call it a day. The car will look great for a month, but after a couple of washes the glaze will be gone and the mess will reappear. A pro, a real good pro, will likely charge something in the $350 to $500 range, but he'll do the job right the first time and actually correct the problems for you.

 

Thanks for the advice Mike. Just as you predicted, my local car wash quoted me $100. My buddy paid $500 for his detail on his Ferrari 360 and i thought he was crazy. Funny thing is i picked out some flaws with his detail, im actually picker that he is....plus my car is black! But how do you really know that the $350-$500 guy isnt just doing a $100 job. Maybe word of mouth/reputation?

I just bought a Meguires claybar kit and Meguires wax. Im hoping to detail it tomorrow(Sunday) in my garage. Is there any advice you can give a first time do-it-yourselfer as far as claybar and wax are concerned? Should i wax by hand or go buy a rotating electric setup of some kind?

Am i supposed to use the water/vinegar mix on just the affected waterspot areas or wash the entire car with it?

Do i use normal carwash soap afterwards?

And what is paint cleaner...ive never heard of that term?

 

Talk to your friend about his experience with the Ferrari and, if possilbe, inspect it under harsh direct sunlight. You're looking for swirl marks - very fine little scratches that appear to be in rings around the center point of a light source, in this case the sun. If the paint is uniformly smooth and glossy then any of these defects have been removed. You should also be able to talk with the detailer, tell him what you're looking for, have him evaluate your car and give you a firm price.

First off, wash and dry the car thoroughly. The clay kit should have a bottle of Quik Detailer and a microfiber towel as well as a box with two pieces of clay. Open only one piece of clay and knead it into a flat disk that just fits in the palm of your hand. Spray some of the QD onto an area of the car covering roughly a 2' x 2' section then just start lightly rubbing the clay over the paint. It doesn't take a lot of pressure, hardly any at all in fact. You'll feel the clay start to slide very easily as bonded contaminants are removed. You can actually move the clay over the surface fairly quickly and should be able to do the entire car in under 30 minutes. As you finish claying an area wipe off the excess QD spay with the microfiber towel and move on to the next section. Continue this process over the entire painted surface of the car. From time to time inspect the clay - it should be getting dirty as it picks up contaminants so you'll need to fold it over a couple of times and continue on. DO NOT DROP THE CLAY ON THE GROUND. IF YOU DO THROW IT AWAY IMMEDIATELY AND NEVER LET IT TOUCH YOUR CAR AGAIN. I CAN NOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH, AND IT'S THE REASON MEGUIAR'S GIVES TWO SMALL BARS IN THE KIT.

As for waxing, you want to apply thin coats. If you think you're putting it on too thick I guarantee you are. This is the single most common mistake people make. A black car should not look white when the wax hazes over - that's a sure sign you probably used enough wax to cover half a dozen cars. On light colored cars you should have a hard time telling where you put the wax and where you didn't. The preferred applicator when doing this by hand is a small foam applicator pad. These are usually available at auto parts stores, etc. If you bought Meguair's NXT Tech Wax it comes with one. Use it. Allow the wax to fully haze (usually 15 - 20 minutes depending on ambient conditions) then remove it with a clean microfiber towel. No need to keep wiping or "buffing" to achieve a higher gloss. All you'll do is remove more of what you just applied.

You won't hurt anything by washing the whole car with the vinegar water mix but there isn't a real need to. I would give the whole car a proper wash first then go over the water spotted areas with the vinegar water mix. Dry the car and proceed with the claying as mentioned above.

A paint cleaner is basically a polish - there aren't any hard and fast definitions in the auto detailing world unfortunately. Meguiar's makes a three step system that includes a paint cleaner, polish and wax. This is the Deep Crystal System sold at auto parts stores, Target, Wal Mart, etc and is great stuff for hand application purposes. You don't have to use all three of them, and you can substitute any wax for the 3rd step in the system.

Always wash before doing this, and clay only as needed. The first two steps, paint cleaner and polish, need to be handled differently than the wax though. Meguiar's paint cleaners and polishes should never be allowed to dry on the paint like you do with a wax - they'll just be a pain to remove.

The Step 1 paint cleaner (what Meguiar's calls a cleaner polish) needs to be worked quite vigorously against the paint using the same sort of foam pad I mentioned above. This is very tiring to do by hand but it will remove light swirl marks and dirt embedded in the paint. paint. You work a 2' x 2' section going back and forth then up and down a couple of times over the paint, then wipe off the remaining product and move on.

The Step 2 polish is what Meguiar's refers to as a pure polish. It has no abrasives whatsoever and is merely designed as a beauty treatment. It adds depth and gloss but offers no protection at all and must be covered with a wax or sealant. This is applied using the same 2' x 2' work area and the same sort of pad, but this time you work it against the paint much more gently and wipe off wihile still "wet". This is a purely optional step and quite honestly won't reveal much on a very new, light colored vehicle.

Meguiar's has versions of all these items in their professiional line of products and that's all I use any more. Then again I polish paint using a rotary or DA buffer, depending on what needs to be accomplished. Oh, and if you couldn't tell, I could talk about this stuff all day long!!! Sorry.

 

One thing I have never understood is whether we should wash the car again after claying and before continuing with a wax or a sealant. Do you have a preference for that sequencing? Your expertise is really appreciated here. Thanks.

 

If you use a quick detail spray as a lubricant for the clay then there is no need to rewash the car before moving onto the polishing/paint cleaning step. Some people like to use soapy water for lube and just go around and clay the whole car. In that case I would recommend a full wash before moving on. But since I don't like to make more work for myself, I always clay with a quick detail spray for lube.

 

Great; thanks for the expert advice. I imagine most of us share your view of excessive work, too.

 

Ok so i did the claybar and wax this weekend and the car looks great! But i still have a few concerns. The entire job from washing until waxing was complete took about 3 hrs. I assume it will go faster next time.

First, i washed the waterspotted areas with the vinegar/water mix. Unfortunately it didnt help at all. After scratching vigerously with my fingernail i was finally able to get about one square centimeter to come off a little bit. With as much pressure as i was applying i was affraid my fingernail might actually scratch the finish, not to mention how long it took for that one small area...so i stopped. Im still open for ideas. Someone mentioned wet sanding?

My technique was just rubbing the flattened clay back and forth over and over. I probably did any given spot 5-10 times just to make sure i didnt miss anything. I dont know if thats really necessary or if its overkill. The hood and the roof were the dirtiest spots, the clay came back yellow with little brown specs. So it was obviously working.

I used both claybars since half way through the job i had already flipped and kneaded the clay a few times and it was getting dirty. Am i supposed to dispose of the used clay? That seems like a waste but i cant see reusing it.

I thought i remembered reading that some people put a plastic sandwich bag on their hand to check for smoothness to see if the paint is really clean. I tried this method and oddly the car didnt feel smooth, it even left a few light scratches, but they luckily came out with the waxing. After thinkning i overdid the claybar step, im confused as to why this happened. I swear it felt smooth without the plastic bag....

Oh, and is it ok to just wash out the foam wax applicator or should i just buy a new one each time?

So...im still a detailing noob but i think im comming along pretty well. Any more advice on some of the above issues its greatly appreciated.

 

Do not wet sand. Don't put anything remotely even approaching sandpaper on your car. I even remove my Crossfire from the workshop when bead blasting in my sealed, filtered blasting cabinet just so there's no chance of grit getting on the car. If you wet sand, you will run the risk of going through your clearcoat. Once that's done, it's game over for that panel.

Clay bar only. Do NOT use your fingernail. Just use the clay bar and use lots of Clay solution. Never clay dry. Keep rubbing that clay on until that crap comes off. I've clayed off urethane paint overspray on cars. It will take car of those "water spot" stains.

Dispose of old, messed up clay. Use new clay bars. When I buy new clay bars, I cut them in half with a knife and knead them into thin sheets.

It sounds like the previous owner of that car left a lot of crap on it. If it costs you $50 in clay it will be worth it in the end for that perfect finish.

By the way, remove as much loose dirt using water and a mild detergent as you can before claying. Only use clay on the stuff a gentle swipe of cotton microfiber won't remove.

Also, do not wax your car until you've removed every bit of crap from the surface. Otherwise, it will be swirl mark city, I assure you.

 

If you think it's tree sap, I would suggest Turpentine as a solvent to remove it. Try a small area first. It won't hurt the paint.

 

Sounds like you did a decent job with the clay treatment - it should come up looking rather nasty! As for those water spots, while I don't recommend the fingernail removal process, at least it proves that you have bonded contaminants and not badly etched paint. That is very good news. I have to say though, if you really needed to use both clay bars then your car was a real mess and the previous owner should be hunted down and shot. Only once have I ever had to use more than a single piece of clay on a car. Anyway, I would clay the water spotted areas again to see if you can eliminate the remaining spots. Meguiar's does sell a more aggressive clay than what can be had over the counter. Check their website for availablity.

You can wash the wax applicator and reuse it, not a problem.

Congrats on your first clay bar application. Feels good bringing the glow back to the finish, doesn't it?

 

I'm just confused as to why soronos went ballistic when wet sanding was mentioned. It's not bad for the car if done properly and will actually give far superior results when done properly to any other method of paint finishing. My brother does this for a living and you should see the black lingenfelter TT Z06 he did... Freaking amazing, even put zaino to shame.

However a proper wetsand and buff will cost a pretty penny too, he said that he got paid over $600 for that, and that was his cut after the body shop took theirs.

He said he sanded with 2500, 3000 then 4000, then used a Foam app pad with a very light polish on a Dewalt buffer and ended with a pure carnuba wax.

 

I'm not.

No offense to 240M3SRT but this was the first time he even used a clay bar....... let's not put some sand paper in his hands just yet!!!!

Wet sanding is not for the feint of heart, and definitely not for the novice. I spent most of the week between Christmas and New Years helping with a wet sand, cut and buff job on the Alpine Electronics custom vehicles for the Consumer Electronics Show (pictures will be up in a couple of days at the Meguiar's forum - we had to wait until the vehicles were revealed at CES this week) and it takes real skill to do it right. I was working with a couple of uber-pros who have been doing this for years and think nothing of breaking out the big guns when detailing cars as high end as Pebble Beach class winners. This was all fresh, custom paint done at Santini's shop here in SoCal and we wet sanded with 1500 and 2000 for the most part, then used wool pads on high speed rotary machines with the new Meguiar's M105 Ultra Cut Compound. This is a brand new product in their professional line and it's just amazing stuff. I've got some reflection shots taken after using just this on a wool pad, no wax, not even another finishing polish, and I don't think I would have believed it if I hadn't seen it in person.

As for removing the water spots, or any other defects, ALWAYS start with the least aggressive approach. Wet sanding is a LAST RESORT ONLY!!

 

Sorry dyezak, I just amended my post to be less ballistic sounding. I totally did not mean to sound ballistic. I was just trying to make a firm statement not to wet sand. Let's face it, clay bars can be used by someone who has never detailed before, but to tell someone who has never detailed a car before to wet sand with even 4000 grit sandpaper is leaving out a whole lot more to the process. Basically, there's the fact that you must use 8000, 14000, and 50000 grit rubbing compounds in succession before getting a mirror finish.

Again: Wet sanding and rubbing compound application is useful when necessary, but it is not for the amateur. There's probably 2 mil or less of clearcoat on these cars. I would not recommend it for the kind of person who just learned what a clay bar was!

regards

 

Ok, I'm not confused any longer...and totally agree. I personally would never wetsand my car. Number one it's a tedious and time consuming job that I've not got the patients for. Number two it takes a skill that I don't have.

Lastly, untill last week I didn't know there was anything more fine than 2000 grit paper. My brother pulled out some 10,000 grit 3m stuff that was like notebook paper. I was astonished that they made such a super fine grit paper.

If zaino doesn't give me the results I like on my black car in a few weeks when I get around to doing it...then my brother get's my car this spring to wet sand and buff. I figure if he can be trusted by complete stangers with there several hundered thousand dollar cars, I can trust him with mine too.

 

Does your car have issues that would even require wet sanding? If so, Zaino won't help it. Meguiar's won't help it. Nothing you just pour out of a bottle will help it if it really needs wet sanding. You really can't even level orange peel by buffing because the tools used in machine polishing will actually conform to the highs and lows of the orange peel. You need to block sand to knock the highs down and level the paint, then compound with a rotary to take out the sanding marks. But as sonoros pointed out, most factory paint jobs have a very limited amount of clear and wet sanding usually isn't recommended. Yes, there are those who do it, but it leaves precious clear behind for future polishing. Now, if you're talking about some spot touch ups, that's a different story. I've done that on my own cars a few times with excellent results. Not sure I'd want to do it to the whole vehicle though.

 

I doubt it does...minute swirls from the previous owner not properly washing the car. Zaino should get it done...