I put Ultras in everything I have, they work fine.

 

Where did you get the lumens info from? And do you have the candlepower numbers since lumens takes into account efficiency type things such as how much energy is converted into light skewing a true light only output. We don't care how efficient they are just how bright they are, candlepower is just how bright they are. Using Lumens is like saying the LED is twice as bright with a 4 amp draw since it converts more of the 4 amps to light. The Halogen could still have more candlepower. I have yet to see on the road an LED brighter than other bulb types.

Still a skeptic

 

In order to let the Lumens info be more than hearsay, you can look the specifications up for yourself at the respective manufacturer websites, or the many online comparison tests.

The difference between Lumens and Candlepower (Candela) is interesting, and I had to look it up.

A naked light bulb radiates the light it produces all around. This is measured in Lumens. No matter whether the light source is Halogen, Xenon or LED, Lumens is independent and it just expresses the amount of light produced.

The Headlight reflector and projector make it a narrow beam, in which the Lumens the light produces is radiated within a narrow cone. The brightest part of that beam is measured in Candlepower.

Candlepower is a measure of the brightest part of the beam of a light whereas Lumens is a measure of the total amount of light put out by a light.

A good example demonstrating the difference between Lumens and Candlepower is the laser. Lasers have a very high Candlepower because the light is focused into a single point, but it would have a very low Lumens value because it does not give off a substantial amount light.

So, what makes the Candlepower, is the amount of Lumens of the light used and the reflector and projector (lens) we have in our Crossfire’s Headlight. The Headlight is a fixed factor, cosidering you do not want to change that. Than the Candlepower depends on the Lumens only. Twice as much Lumens in the same Headlight means twice as much Candlepower in the resulting beam.

Candlepower does not matter when we talk Lumens because all that Lumens describes is the total amount of light produced. A light that produces 200 Lumens makes 5 times more light than a light that produces 40 Lumens. To give you a reference, an good old bulb of 60 Watt produces about 100 Lumens.

For this all to be true in a car’s headlight, the light emitting part of a bulb should be in the exact same spot, because the reflector and projector are designed to exactly match that spot. The new generation LED bulbs comply. The only problem we face here is the limited space in the Headlight.

 

NOTE: TRS ( The Retrofit Source ) is now selling Morimoto 2stroke H7 LEDs.
I sent them an email stating I'd be willing to try a set in my Crossie
and give them a good detailed review with installation instructions.
We'll see.

https://www.theretrofitsource.com/le...l#.V3j2H_krKHs

 

I will waive my normal consolation fee, as your independent ,third party ,affirmation of review and results.(If you get 2 sets free )

 

I wonder if they are "testing" in reflector or projector housings?

Just sayin', buddy.

 

I know, that's why I offered to 'test' them.

 

VERY SMART! Hope it works. I can tell you will give them (and all of us) a thorough and complete account/review. Your reputation precedes you! Good luck on a freebee!

 

Yes, it should be in their best interest, I am currently running their Morimoto HID's in the low beams, they would possibly have lot's of sales if I can report that the new LEDs are superior to the old HIDs.

 

Well said, what did your research do in finding the lumens specification was a function of how much light is produced based upon the amount of energy used? It's not just the light emitted, it's an energy conversion factor.

If we start with candlepower then we are on the same playing field but if you start with lumens the conversion to candlepower is skewed because of the energy used factor. That is why the LED rates higher lumens but isn't as bright isn't it?

Why would a Google search of "led headlight candlepower" in the quotes reveal no results with the quotes? How many LED spec pages show true candlepower?

I disagree with "Twice as much Lumens in the same Headlight means twice as much Candlepower in the resulting beam." Since lumens is total light output it could mean the LED is brighter but is the focus correct to where a driver needs it? This would be like your laser example. The H7 might be lower lumens but higher candlepower than an LED and produce more light where needed, on the road way in front of the car. This is why I really wish candlepower was the standard spec. Lumens can be deceiving.

 

We are interested only in the beam and the area close to the beam when driving, much of the light outside the focal point of the parabola will be seen as glare by oncoming traffic. (and low flying planes) LOL
So less light output but with the light source at the focal point can be the best.
Obviously we cannot have a point source but that would be ideal.

 

Lumen has nothing to do with the ratio of light produced based upon the amount of energy used, or lumen being an energy conversion factor. That would be luminous efficacy, lumen per watt. Relevant to determine whether light is emitted efficiently. We all know LED is highly efficient.

From Wikipedia:
Lumen is the SI derived unit of luminous flux, a measure of the total quantity of visible light emitted by a source.
Candela is the SI base unit of luminous intensity; that is, luminous power per unit solid angle emitted by a point light source in a particular direction.
There is a lot on youtube that explains it much better.

There is no energy factor involved here. Of course actual output depends on the voltage and current delivered to the LED.

Higher lumens just means more light. And if you are able to focus all the light in a particular direction, it will result in more light in that direction. The more light you can concentrate into a smaller angel, the intenser the resulting beam will be. The intensity of this beam is measured in candela, known as candlepower.

The specifications of a LED flashlight will always (have to) be in candela, because a flashlight has a reflector and a lens, to point the light in a particular direction. Here candela value is really a measurement of how far a flashlight will throw a beam. Pretty relevant.

The specifications of a bare light bulb (like the H7 discussed here) will never be in candela, because a light bulb emits its light all around. It needs a reflector and a lens to point the light source in a particular direction.
This is why a Google search of the exact phrase "led headlight candlepower" will reveal no results. “headlight candlepower” does, but only for sealed beams. For a headlight with H7 there cannot be a fixed candlepower value, because it will depend on the variable of the H7 bulb used.

The reflector is visually very well explained in the above parabola.

What we are interested in here is the intensity of the headlight beam.
H7 is an industry standard that prescribe the exact location/position of the light emitting source, to which manufacturers design their headlight. Design the reflector and lens of their headlight, to optimally focus the light in a beam to properly light the road ahead.
The first generation H7 LEDs had several LEDs all around, up and down, not in the focal point of the reflector.
The latest generation has two opposed LEDs in the H7 focal point, resulting in a tight beam with no glare.

The practical problem we face here, is that our Crossfire headlight housing was not designed to accommodate the larger back end of the LED lights.
The one shown in the beginning of this thread, with the flexible heat sink, is a good candidate for narrow spaces. But I doubt whether the additional Canbus component box, assuming it is needed for our Crossfire. A solution for this might be to take the wiring out of the headlight housing and use the H7 LED type as shown in the youtube clip above. Proper dust caps should be available.

 

Bummer, a quick search did not yield the sites that talked about lumens having an energy conversion factor. I am chalking those up to web misinformation and not a valid lumens issue.

In your explanation we find why LED's don't appear brighter on our cars than the H7. The way the headlight focuses the beam. We don't know the candlepower spec of the H7 on a Crossfire nor do we the LED and the only way for the LED to appear brighter down the road is to focus more lumens down the road. Per 180's post about focal point in the parabola and knowing the Crossfire headlight is made for the H7 bulb so if the LED was not made to exactly match the H7's light emitting location the LED cannot focus the lumens properly to appear brighter. The bulbs would have to match exactly in the location of the light source.

Do you have a side by side comparison of the H7 and an LED you speak of?

These show the originating point of light being very different...

https://d114hh0cykhyb0.cloudfront.ne...h7-w36-drl.jpg

 

Great point as well as the other references! I have found the more ambiguous advertisers and retailers are about their products (remember they are trying to part you of your monies) the more likely you get so mixed up, that you buy their product because of 'this or that' specification. I also find that after the sale, (sometimes) people are likely to 'justify' their purchases even if they are not as happy with the item as they thought they would be (as in not willing to admit they may have been misled or ripped off). In a perfect world there would be a standard of specifications. I tend to see a reason why there isn't standard specs in the many claims of products, to help deceive people to buy. I do know that as newer cars come out (or people 'upgrade' without regard to ride height, I get blinded by oncoming traffic. All these colors of light, coupled with lack of care to aim (based on ride height/load in vehicle), causes a night time driving safety hazard.

 

I agree completely. HID's in a reflector housing is all the rage at Auburn University, and it's really annoying.
Especially when those reflector housings are mounted 5 feet high on the front of a Silverado with a 12" lift kit.
And then not aimed properly.

 

Do any of the students have them in their tractor lights ?

 

And it's so simple ..., all that's needed is that the manufacturer has to comply to the industry H7 standard ...

 

Nope.

They seem to prefer the 48" LED light bars.

They're WORSE!

 

In the US of A, in most locales, a car owner can change out parts, and ignore the pertinent laws and regulations. Until a policemen pulls them over to talk about it.

Some of our states are quite strict and others...not so much.

 

Simple rule in Alabama :

If it rolls, it's legal.
I still occasionally see some 1950's era pulpwood trucks that haven't had headlights or tail lights in 50 years.