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attic fan?

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Old Jun 20, 2009 | 08:39 AM
  #21 (permalink)  
maxcichon's Avatar
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Default Re: attic fan?

Originally Posted by dwightdmagee
Can I watch, Max?

Spent a life-time as a construction manager listening to the engineers battling the architects. Once in a while common sense would actually prevail.

Regards.
I had the distinction of being forced to work with achitectural students on a solar concept home here on the AU campus.

Gave me a whole new prespective on others ways of looking at things.

NOT for the better. ME's have a definition for architects. Ask one.

Who would like to see a picture of the result?
 
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Old Jun 20, 2009 | 08:57 AM
  #22 (permalink)  
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Default Re: attic fan?

Originally Posted by maxcichon
I had the distinction of being forced to work with achitectural students on a solar concept home here on the AU campus.

Gave me a whole new prespective on others ways of looking at things.

NOT for the better. ME's have a definition for architects. Ask one.

Who would like to see a picture of the result?
sure I'd like to see, architects would be so much better with the application of a little common sense into a project.
 
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Old Jun 21, 2009 | 11:48 AM
  #23 (permalink)  
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Default Re: attic fan?

Originally Posted by maxcichon
I had the distinction of being forced to work with achitectural students on a solar concept home here on the AU campus.
Don’t get me started on architectural students & professors designing/building a solar home. There was a group ahead of me in college that did that. The end result was one of the most butt ugly homes I’ve ever seen.

Architecture in the 20th Century has manifest into a dependence on mechanical control of the indoor environment. In a sense, we have become prisoners of complicated mechanical systems. Energy efficiency doesn’t have to be difficult such as having one mechanical device to make another more efficient. All one needs to do is go back to the basics the way homes were built before we had air conditioning. Living spaces and attics were vented PASSIVELY. In general, the roof designs had louvered vents in the gables allowing air to pass through the attic horizontally.

An energy efficiently designed home will strongly relate to its site, climate, local building materials and the sun. A good example of this is the old ranch style home. The homes had big overhangs and lots of operable windows. Today, little attention is paid to the unique character of local climate and building materials.

Am I advocating that one needs to reconstruct their roof to save on energy cost? Of course not. Just exercise some common sense. An existing roof with a reasonable ridge line can easily be modified to install a ridge vent. The area of eave vents area should at a minimum equal or exceed the area of the ridge vent. Attic insulation should be kept clear from the eave vents in order to ensure airflow. Once installed, it cost nothing to adequately vent the attic.

As far as those wurlybird turbines go, they were not a bad idea when they were invented. They came out at the time we started relying on mechanical systems to cool our homes thus started closing in the attics. Then people started realizing that their attics were HOT! However, turbines are not a good idea for regions that are susceptible to heavy rain falls and/or hot summers with no breeze. If you ever stand underneath one in a heavy rainfall, guess what, you’re going to get WET! And on a hot summer day with no breeze, they are virtually worthless. To equal the ventilation a ridge vent will provide, you’d need to put them at about five feet on-center.

Now, since no one ask, let me say something about attic insulation. The latest in vogue thing being pushed on us is to go “green” and install cellulose insulation. Cellulose is generally made from ground newspaper. It’s then treated with chemicals to supposably make it fire retardant and resist insects. While the chemicals have been deemed safe for humans, I’m not willing to take the risk it as those chemical vapors are leaching into the living space. Paper also breaks down reducing the R-value and producing dust which also enters the living space. And, if you ever have a roof leak and don’t know it you now have a food source for black mold growing in your attic.

A much better choice is formaldehyde free fiberglass insulation. While it does break down very slowly over time, it does not share any of other the disadvantages of cellulose.
 

Last edited by InfernoRedXfire; Jun 21, 2009 at 12:03 PM.
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Old Jun 21, 2009 | 12:14 PM
  #24 (permalink)  
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Default Re: attic fan?

Inferno, you are employing WAY too much common sense. Be careful with that type of thinking; it might be contagious.
 
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Old Jun 21, 2009 | 01:37 PM
  #25 (permalink)  
maxcichon's Avatar
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Default Re: attic fan?

IRCF, point by point:

Originally Posted by InfernoRedXfire
Don’t get me started on architectural students & professors designing/building a solar home. There was a group ahead of me in college that did that. The end result was one of the most butt ugly homes I’ve ever seen.

Architecture in the 20th Century has manifest into a dependence on mechanical control of the indoor environment. In a sense, we have become prisoners of complicated mechanical systems. Energy efficiency doesn’t have to be difficult such as having one mechanical device to make another more efficient. All one needs to do is go back to the basics the way homes were built before we had air conditioning. Living spaces and attics were vented PASSIVELY. In general, the roof designs had louvered vents in the gables allowing air to pass through the attic horizontally.


I somewhat agree. Even then, and I've lived in old houses, the attics were still to hot for material longivity.
On a tangent-the design of homes in the south is awful. I had cross words with the builder of my present home on completion. "The windows leak air and there is only 6" of insulation in the attic" said I. His response: "Don't need it. It doesn't get cold in the south".

DUH! He fixed my complaints before closing.

An energy efficiently designed home will strongly relate to its site, climate, local building materials and the sun. A good example of this is the old ranch style home. The homes had big overhangs and lots of operable windows. Today, little attention is paid to the unique character of local climate and building materials.

Coming from a very cold climate, I agree. Minimal windows/penetrations to the north/west.

Am I advocating that one needs to reconstruct their roof to save on energy cost? Of course not. Just exercise some common sense. An existing roof with a reasonable ridge line can easily be modified to install a ridge vent. The area of eave vents area should at a minimum equal or exceed the area of the ridge vent. Attic insulation should be kept clear from the eave vents in order to ensure airflow. Once installed, it cost nothing to adequately vent the attic.

I disagree. Ridge vents may help, but passive (convective) heat dissipation is wholly inadequate in most homes. The neighbor I cited earlier is a perfect case-in-point. Full ridge vents and continuous eave vents (not blocked). 12 X 12 pitch and light colored shigles. 130 degrees + on a hot day.

As far as those wurlybird turbines go, they were not a bad idea when they were invented. They came out at the time we started relying on mechanical systems to cool our homes thus started closing in the attics. Then people started realizing that their attics were HOT! However, turbines are not a good idea for regions that are susceptible to heavy rain falls and/or hot summers with no breeze. If you ever stand underneath one in a heavy rainfall, guess what, you’re going to get WET! And on a hot summer day with no breeze, they are virtually worthless. To equal the ventilation a ridge vent will provide, you’d need to put them at about five feet on-center.

I agree. The mechanical movement is mostly a product of hot air exhausting the attic. I would need someone to explain the mechanics of the turning dome pumping air from the interior spaces. If it were attached to a Roman screw or the like...maybe.

Now, since no one ask, let me say something about attic insulation. The latest in vogue thing being pushed on us is to go “green” and install cellulose insulation. Cellulose is generally made from ground newspaper. It’s then treated with chemicals to supposably make it fire retardant and resist insects. While the chemicals have been deemed safe for humans, I’m not willing to take the risk it as those chemical vapors are leaching into the living space. Paper also breaks down reducing the R-value and producing dust which also enters the living space. And, if you ever have a roof leak and don’t know it you now have a food source for black mold growing in your attic.

I agree 100%. Excellent point.

A much better choice is formaldehyde free fiberglass insulation. While it does break down very slowly over time, it does not share any of other the disadvantages of cellulose.
And again. I agree.

Back to the original point I was trying to make:

in a contemporary home, the electrical cost offset vs. central air is awin-win. An electrical roof ventilator is an efficient way to reduce the temperature of the attic space significantly. A high quality unit, installed properly, can last a long, long time. At ~ $150 cheap in big scheme.

JMHO!
 
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