My house overlooks the 2nd hole of a golf course. Best part is a huge backyard and I don't have to mow. My yard is all deck and floor beds. Life is good! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

I hate to say it, but as a life long conservative, Bush has done the near impossible: he's lost me and if I vote at all, I've got to vote for Kerry.

It's undeniably clear now that we were seriously misled on why we went into Iraq, we're stuck to that tar baby, with virtually no exit strategy. It's a good thing the economy has been good, 'cause Bush's adventure is doing it's best to derail it.

He's taken care of his friends in the contracting, and although I'm no tree hugger I DO appreciate breathing fresh air and being outdoors...well Bush's ecological policies should make even the most ardent polluter/hater of nature cringe. I appreciated my $600 tax cut, but just like in my own finances, if I've got bills to pay, the money goes there first. The timing of the cut could not have been worse.

The worst possible thing that can happen in my mind is a President Clinton II, which is WHY we must vote for Kerry.

First off, no way could Kerry make a bigger mess of things than Bush has, so there it's a zero sum game.

Follow my warped logic...there's method in the madness...

IF Kerry does a crappy job, he gets voted out after one term AND is replaced by a (hopefully more capable than Bush) Republican. Good thing.

IF he's doing a good job, heck, let him have a second term! I may be a conservative, but I don't lock myself into one ticket or another when voting.

If he serves one term, we have another Republican. If he serves TWO terms, that means Hillary can't run for another 8 years, by that time she probably wouldn't run at all.

IF Bush wins, then the 08 election is truly wide open, and it nauseates me to see signs that Hillary might actually have a chance to win in an open contest. If Bush continues to drag this country down a dark hole, then Hilary may look tolerable to those who would otherwise never consider her...the Republican candidate suffering from guilt by association.

A vote for Kerry is a vote against Hillary...and President Bush...which probably isn't a bad thing right about now.

 

All I can say is I disagree with you on every point. And I work very closely with the Apache units in Iraq. What we are seeing over there is a last ditch effort by a minority and outsiders to get us to leave. If Kerry gets his way... They will get there way too... Not a good plan.

I think you have been watching WAY to much liberal news. It's clouded your vision... Just my opinion.

 

Any idiot that votes for Kerry is saying "Hey lets raise gas even 50 cents a gallon higher than it already is...."

Democraps started that phrase "Politically Correct" which really means "Politically Corrupt"

Carter was bad enough....Clinton was completly horrible, Kerry is even Worse. France love him because they are pathetically liberal, Europe likes him because of the same reason...... Even the terrorist want him in so they can taunt us without worry of being stopped.

Hollywood is full of idiots like michael moore, barbra streisand, george clooney, sean penn, martin sheen....these numbskulls would probably vote saddam as president over a Republican.

(Video) Bowling for Columbine was just propaganda for spineless wimps.

----------------------------below is an email I got called Our America------------------

I sat in a movie theater watching "Schindler's List," asked
myself, "Why didn't the Jews fight back?"

Now I know why.

I sat in a movie theater, watching "Pearl Harbor" and asked
myself, "Why weren't we prepared?"

Now I know why.

Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the actions
of evil people.

On September 11, dozens of capable airplane passengers allowed
themselves to be overpowered by a handful of poorly armed
terrorists because they did not comprehend the depth of hatred that
motivated their captors.

On September 11, thousands of innocent people were murdered
because too many Americans naively reject the reality that some
nations are dedicated to the dominance of others. Many political
pundits, pacifists and media personnel want us to forget the
carnage. They say we must focus on the bravery of the rescuers
and ignore the cowardice of the killers. They implore us to
understand the motivation of the perpetrators. Major television
stations have announced they will assist the healing process by not
replaying devastating footage of the planes crashing into the Twin
Towers.

I will not be manipulated.

I will not pretend to understand.

I will not forget.

I will not forget the liberal media who abused freedom of the
press to kick our country when it was vulnerable and hurting.

I will not forget that CBS anchor Dan Rather preceded
President Bush's address to the nation with the snide remark, "No
matter how you feel about him, he is still our president."

I will not forget that ABC TV anchor Peter Jennings questioned
President Bush's motives for not returning immediately to
Washington, DC and commented, "We're all pretty skeptical and
cynical about Washington."

And I will not forget that ABC's Mark Halperin warned if
reporters weren't informed of every little detail of this war, they
aren't "likely -- nor should they be expected -- to show
deference."

I will not isolate myself from my fellow Americans by
pretending an attack on the USS Cole in Yemen was not an attack on
the United States of America.

I will not forget the Clinton administration equipped Islamic
terrorists and their supporters with the world's most sophisticated
telecommunications equipment and encryption technology, thereby
compromising America's ability to trace terrorist radio, cell
phone, land lines, faxes and modem communications.

I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory
strikes like those perfected by the previous administration.

I will not be comforted by "feel-good, do nothing" regulations
like the silly, "Have your bags been under your control?" question
at the airport.

I will not be influenced by so called,"antiwar demonstrators"
who exploit the right of __expression to chant anti-American
obscenities.

I will not forget the moral victory handed the North
Vietnamese by American war protesters who reviled and spat upon the
returning soldiers, airmen, sailors and marines.

I will not be softened by the wishful thinking of pacifists
who chose reassurance over reality.

I will embrace the wise words of Prime Minister Tony Blair who
told the Labor Party conference, "They have no moral inhibition on
the slaughter of the innocent. If they could have murdered not
7,000 but 70,000, does anyone doubt they would have done so and
rejoiced in it?

There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting
of minds, no point of understanding with such terror. Just a
choice: defeat it or be defeated by it. And defeat it we must!"

I will force myself to:

-hear the weeping
-feel the helplessness
-imagine the terror
-sense the panic
-smell the burning flesh
- experience the loss
- Remember the hatred.

I sat in a movie theater, watching "Private Ryan" and asked
myself, "Where did they find the courage?"

Now I know.

We have no choice. Living without liberty is not living.

-- Ed Evans, MGySgt., USMC (Ret.)
Not as lean, Not as mean, But still a Marine.

Keep this going until every living American has read it and
memorized it so we don't make the same mistake again
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

...now I remember why I steer clear of political discussions...

For what it's worth, I've got my own political leanings, some of which I *firmly* believe in. However, I would never be so arrogant as to think someone who voted differently than me was an "idiot." I may not agree, but, hey, everyone's got their own opinions.

Bondfan's obviously given the subject a lot of thought -- a lot more than anyone I'd consider an idiot would be capable of.

The rest of these forums are so great -- why is it when politics come up, everything suddenly turns ugly?

 

Actually, although many here disagree on politics (and some other things) we are all Crossfire owners and share that common link. Ive seen many posts where people don't agree and then on another they are chatting like old friends. Its an off topic subject for who is interested it.

When I said "Any (Idiot) who votes for Kerry" I wasn't refering to Bondfan directly, its just frusterating at how people don't understand what Kerry is really about. :shock:





Besides the fact of Kerry taking the wrong side of everything, can you imagine our society functioning with gasoline being even $.50 Higher than it already is?? Inflation should be his middle name. I work for a company and have a company truck. How can they afford to buy gas for all the vehicles if the 'dems' get back in the white house. Its sad but that is only the tip of the iceburg of what they would do to bring down America. Never before has politics been so day and night different between Republicans and Democrats. In the old days it was just a few issues, but now its completely good versus evil. America was built on values and the dems are wishing to water them down so the next generation will forget them and that America had to fight to be free. Im not writing this because I love politics, im writing this because I love America and Freedom. 8)

 

I agree with you Dan... 100%

I work in the defense industry... Kerry will all but shut us down. But that's okay because we will all be under the U.N.'s control anyway, if Kerry has his way. :?

 

The ABSOLUTE worst part of it ALL is he voted to authorize troops, but then votes to not support them.

 

That's just Kerry's way of getting rid of our military that he's been slandering since the day he got back from is 4 month Vaca in Southeast Asia..... Send them to war but don't give them the tools they need to survive.... I've got rocks in my garden that have more common sense than that guy.

 

You may have a point on Kerry,

BUT Bush is worrying me greatly. At this point the overwhelming majority of miliatry experts agree that our force is too small to get the job done in Iraq. Bush better wake up to that soon and do something about it, or HE'S going to look like he's unwilling to provide what's needed to get the job done.

One problem is that there isn't exactly an overabundance of 'extra' troops to send, and one might rightly argue that that is a Clinton legacy.

But that becomes an excuse for putting and keeping our troops in harm's way without giving them the support they need.

A report was issued today by a defense contractor (so there is likely an admitted bias) that one out of 4 soldiers lost so far might still be alive if we had taken another approach than Rumsfeld's 'smaller, lighter' force that relies so heavily on the lightly armoured/not armoured HumVees.

May be bs, may be something to it.

All I know is that it's a mess, and each passing day looks like this thing hasn't played out at all the way the Bush team expected or planned for.

 

But, Bondfan, If Kerry were to get elected I am very sure that he would make a bad situation much worse. He would turn the whole thing over to the UN and put our troops under UN control. Beirut and Haiti are just 2 of many, many examples of the UN's inability to build governments and maintain peace.

All I'm saying is that if you vote for Kerry and he wins we better have one hell of a congress to over-ride him or this country will be in deep **** (or should I say DEEPER ****..... Much deeper!).

And for Kerry to play on his (less than illustrious) Viet Nam experience just pisses me (and every other real Viet Nam vet I know) off!!!

 

Quagmire logic: Many of the more moderate supportors fear the consequences if we leave. One of the motives of the invasion was to demonstrate American power. Its a measure of how badly things have gone that now we are told we cant leave because it would be a measure of american weakness.
The parallel with Vietnam is obvious. Remember the domino theory ?

 

there is no parallel to Viet Nam. We've already accomplished our main goal which we couldn't do in Viet Nam. Regime change. Also the number of lives lost in Viet Nam is staggering and a tragedy. Of course the number of lives lost in Iraq is also a tragedy but we are talking 50,000 plus dead American Soldiers in Viet Nam and 700 plus American soldiers dead in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Show me one comparison you can make of the two wars.

 

As a Viet Nam vet and someone that works with the military.... The only parallel is that we have dedicated men and women doing an awesome job under very difficult conditions. That's where the similarity ends!

 

1. U.S military is much smaller that in 68 (especially the Army) Measured by our military strength it ties down, Iraq is a Vietnam size conflict.

2. Gen Anthony Zini "Vietnam, where we heard the garbage and the lies, Is it happening again ?" Sure enough Gulf of Tonkin attack, meet W.M.D. and Al Qaeda links "Hearts and minds" meet ""welcome us as liberators"
"Light at the end of the tunnel" meet "turned the corner" "Vietnamization" meet "the new Iraqi army"

Iraq is only part of US hegemony...Troops in over 100 countries. we have not learned the lessons of the Brits in the 20's and many of the Vietnam era deny the reality of how they were duped by their goverment.

 

I, for one, was NOT duped by my government or anyone else.... Just remember it was the Democrats that got us into Viet Nam then tied our hands. We also didn't have near the quality of equipement our troops have now. At least those of us that went answered our countries call and went.... right or wrong!!! I also remember that it was another Damnocrat that let the chicken-**** bastards that ran to Canada come back to a better welcome home than I got when I came back from serving honorably! Yeah.... The Damnorats are really cool.... So are drafty toilets.

What we need to do is quit trying to appease the liberals and quit *****-footing with the insurgents. Last night was a great start.

I can't believe the ignorance of people that think that we should have just been able to go into Iraq kick butt and then leave. I can't/don't watch any of the network news because they are only reporting a very small part of the story of what is going on over there and they have the liberals really sucked into believing that things are going much worse than they are. It's not perfect by a long shot, but it's not near as bad as it's made out to be by the libs.

 

Just like their reporting on events here at home, the "mainstream press" (i.e. liberal elite media) reports NOTHING but the bad news. Why can't our media report good news? Here or aboard? Wonderful things happen EVERY day throughout this nation, but all the press wants to tell us about is the bad.

And I'm sick of the bs that they're just telling us what we demand to see and hear about. Free press, yes, but THEY decide what they want us to see and hear. The USSR had it's censors, but unfortunately so do we. And both are/were just as "left".

Personally, I don't have a problem with "Democrats" per se... but "liberalism" defies any logic I try to apply to it.

 

Well said Wes and David

Sad Fact: The liberals would LOVE for us to lose this war and would LOVE for the economy to fall and crash. They want President Bush out so bad that they would vote for any freak that call themself left-wing. They are starting to realize that Kerry is a very weak canadate but will vote for him anyway just to "get Bush out". President Bush actually has a backbone and the politically corrupted just can't stand that. I like having a President that won't let terror push us around. If gore was behind the wheel of the country during 911, we would probably all be wearing towels on our heads by now. The libs are trying to sell us down the river and many are completly blind to it. Observe the events that happened to Spain recently. They gave in to terrorism and voted in a liberal and now the threat of terror is STILL THERE. Keep America Conservitive. Sure, war isn't fun, but Freedom isn't free.

 

Did I mention that I try not to get involved in political discussions? I did? Damn. Every time I do that, I end up wrong.

There is very little factual about anything you said above. What you have there, for the most part, are a bunch of half-baked opinions based on what fits your world view. They're an attempt to explain to yourself the thought processes of people who think differently than you, but facts? No, not even close.

First off, if wasn't obvious already, I'm pretty liberal myself. Not really a full-on tree-hugger, but I've been known to call myself liberal without being ashamed of it. Maybe this is conceited of me, but I think I've got a bit more insight into the liberal mentality than you seem to, so indulge me while I give you a quick critique of your points from a liberal point of view.

Liberals don't want us to lose this war; we want us out of it. I'll go into that a bit more later, but for now I'd submit we don't like to be lied to about why we're going to topple someone else's government, and we tend to believe that the U.S. Armed Services shouldn't have to do double-duty as Global Sheriff's Department, forcing the American Way on countries that don't want it.

Also, we don't want to see the economy go further into the toilet than it already is. Frankly, in my case, I've done pretty damn well for myself, even in a weak economy, and I'd like to keep raking it in, thanks. Because of this, what I (and, I suspect, most of my more liberal-minded brethren) would like to see is for the economy to improve. The fact that it hasn't been to any really appreciable degree, at least as far as the common man-on-the-street-looking-for-a-job is concerned, is one of the things we don't like about Bush. So, see, you've got that one completely backwards.

This one's got a bit of truth to it. Liberals, as you know, can't stand Bush. In my case, he's about the worst nightmare of a president I can imagine. See, I'm one of those liberals who tends to agree somewhat with conservatives when it comes to things like not liking big government, but who really goes nuts when they try to legislate things like morality, where we don't think the government's got any business.

Bush, on the other hand, is the opposite. He's a big-spending, government-expanding kind of guy who seems more concerned with what goes on in other countries and other people's bedrooms than he does with the nation he's governing. Personally, I think his administration has their priorities completely screwed up. I also personally believe the man's a classless, dopey embarrassing oaf, but that's more a personal peeve than a political view.

For those reasons, (and a whole lot of others, but I can see already this is gonna get long) I would vote for almost anyone, left-wing freak or otherwise, who wasn't Bush. I've got my limits (Lyndon LaRouche, for example, wouldn't get my vote under any circumstances), but if it were up to me to choose whether some random guy on the street or George W. Bush were to be president, frankly I think I'd be willing to take my chances with the guy on the street.


This makes absolutely no sense. Corruption comes in both liberal and conservative flavors -- are you suggesting liberals, as a general rule, are politically corrupt, and conservatives aren't? If so, I'd be more than willing to point out to you a *very* long list of offenses committed by conservatives. Nobody's got a monopoly on corruption.

I won't though, because I frankly have no clue what point you were trying to get across when you said that.

Yeah, right. That's exactly what we liberals do. Fly a plane into our buildings, and we hand over the keys to the country. Do you even *know* any liberals personally? If you do, find some new ones, because either they're really screwed up, or you're just pulling your "facts" out of your butt.

Liberals don't have a problem wiuth defending our country when it's needed. Maybe you're mistaking the distaste I, and many other liberals, share for invading sovereign nations under false pretenses for a lack of a spine. I assure you you're mistaken. And lest you start in with the usual "but Saddam Hussein was a big ol' S.O.B. who needed to go" argument, I'd like to ask, why start and stop with Iraq? Are we now supposed to start blowing up the countries and killing the people of every country whose leaders and policies we don't like? If so, we're really going to need to ramp up smart-bomb production before we start going into Cuba, and China, and Korea, and the hundreds of other places that must be next in line if those are our new criteria for attacking other nations.

I'm gonna wrap this up here -- I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but I do have a problem with people who spout total BS about what liberals think, and what we want, that have no basis in reality.

Hate me if you want, and feel free to think I'm an idiot, but I just wanted to set the record straight.

 

:evil: I was a liberal at one time, a democrat, but woke up and saw what we the liberals were doing to this country starting with Mr. Jimmy Carter.

Edited: No racial slurs of any kind are permitted.