Not really new news, little more than a year old, but looks like it's coming to fruition. I wonder if we use too much AIR for driving, we will have to slow down our breathing?? The US has already knocked the price up to $18,000 and hasn't designed a car yet. Check this out:

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/compressed-air-car.shtml

http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...s/4251491.html

Maybe call it the NOFIRE

 

As a packaging and process engineer, I can tell you that compressed air is one of the worst consumers of energy. Very innefficiant as less than 45% of the power put into a compressed air tank can be redeemed as usable motive energy.
I would be surprised if this could meet a decent MPG equivalent of consumed wattage or BTU's.

Just my opinion. Sonoros, you're the energy guru. What do you think? Could this be efficient?

roadster with a stick

 

Being neither an engineer nor a numbers cruncher, my wallet tells me that travelling 125 miles for $2.00 ain't such a bad deal. Maybe if enough are sold in foreign markets, the oil glut will reduce prices here?? 'course that's wishful thinking.
By the time the NTSB gets thru with it, we won't be able to afford it anyway.
JP

 

I read an article about this car.

Made in, and used extensively in India, it makes it's economy #'s on a presumption of really cheap electricity.

Night charging from a grid supplied by nuclear power.

Vote Republican!

 

India?? Will we be seeing plugin Jaguars???

 

Question to ponder.

Right now we all get our transportaion energy from oil. When the supplier of that energy, once cheap, has no competition they can ask any price and we have to pay it.

So what happens to cheap electricity once we all have to plug in our cars at night?

How much will problems of burning coal or nuclear power plant wastes be improved when we remove the energy source from the vehicle to the huge evil electricity corporations that control the power coming into our houses?
Will we not still F*ck up the planet?

Finally, if we could use a technology, such as compressed air, to solve all the problems of pollution, global warming et al, how long until we can switch and why do we have to get our wallets raped in the meantime?


roadster with a stick

BTW Ftroop is correct. When the NTSB is done, we wouldn't be able to buy that car anyway.

 

franc, wow, to be asked by name, what an honor

As you state, air motors are not known for energy efficiency. However, the air storage mechanism is significantly more efficient than electrical batteries, and would be near 100% if not for some losses due to adiabatic cooling and minimum pressure differential in the regulator.

Your figure of 45% is probably cutting edge based on the work you've done, I have no idea how much a low budget motor could provide, unless efficiency and cost are loosely coupled in air motors. But 45% is actually very good compared to a gasoline engine.

I'm surprised that liquid CNG / propane would not be better used in this application.

On the other hand, adding horsepower to a car like this is easy, just turn up the pressure regulator :P

 

Franc I agree in most part however consider this....in 1965 the squadron I was in at Kirtland AFB, NM had RB57F aircraft. Photo missions and particulate sampling was done from high altitude on the Four Corners Coal Powered Electric facility in Aztec NM. The plume was tracked all the way to Mexico. The plant was forced to install scrubbers on their stacks and eliminated the particulates. Gaseous emissions were also controlled. The US has the world's largest coal reserve. Wind generators are going up by the hundreds, as did my electric bill by 14% this month. Energy problems are solveable, technolgy is available, just needs to be mandated. R factors on building codes, use of passive solar heating designs in new homes, etc. The raping of our wallets has been permissive for the most part and will continue as long as allowed. Man is his own worst enemy.
My solution is VOTE ANTI-INCUMBENT!

 

That 45% is the Air motor only. It does not include the original source power conversion. In the case of a Gasoline engine that would be 27% by 45% which would final out at 12%. I would call that inefficient.

I have two coupon feeders doing exactly the same functon. One is air powered and one is electric servo motor. It takes a 3 HP compressor, 220 Volts three phase to keep up. The Servo motor uses less than 2 amps of 110 V power. No contest.

Ftroop, you are right, we can do it with existing coal,wind,nuclear(?) and other technologies. The mandates need to come from the market place, not Congress. Washington makes it's decisions on getting re-elected. Not always in the best interests of the nation.

Both parties have let the American people down when it comes to energy policies. President Clinton did nothing when oil was $19.00 a barrel. The economy was roaring and he wanted to be popular. Hard choices on energy would have had a negative effect on his fiesta. President Bush didn't have enough political capital to fight terrorism (Provide for the national defense is job one for the White House, Contitution mentions it somewhere I'm sure) and Congress who had other really cool ideas like Ethanol from corn.
And for goodness sake don't punch holes in the ground anywhere that might ruin someone's idea of what Bambi needs, or where ***** swims looking for sea otters to eat. And don't let those big nasty Corporations make a profit.
When the government fiddles with the free enterprise system, it puts it's finger on the scale. The government needs to do this from time to time but should do so lightly and responsibly and should be held accountable. A free press ought to hold a light on these activities but lately our free press has been to busy beating up G. W. Bush to point out that both parties, in Congress, have failed to do their duty.


roadster with a stick

 

Energy production is unfortunately somewhat political in nature, as opposed to energy usage which is more objective.

Compressing the air may be inefficient, but if the compressed air is provided from a waste or excess capacity source, it is economical. Consider, for example, large 10,000 to 50,000 liter underground air tanks used for heavy industry. Tanks must be filled uniformly to a set pressure to power equipment, which means that excess capacity is written off, especially if the tanks are dessicated on a weekly or monthly basis.

Using the excess capacity would be pushing the balance sheets towards the black. This is sort of like a production/six sigma problem - reducing waste may make even 12% efficient devices cost effective, if the initial efficiency is 0%.

I don't think the indians are attempting to replace normal cars with this. It is and probably will be a niche market for those people who have excess compressed air capability.

That said, it's still interesting!

 

I agree.

roadster with a stick

 

Seems to be enough compressed air on this thread to make it efficient. lol

I'm still for electric, seems like the grid at night will handle us for a few years, maybe by then we will have a better solution. Looks like Nissan is banking on that for the near future.

 

I actually agree. The technology for electric is the farthest along and most practical at the moment. Quick change batteries would be the best to solve the refuel on the go issue. Range limitaions would become irrelevant.

In 1971, I actually proposed this approach to some Shell oil exects using the Sebring Kit car as a prototype. They politely listened over a very expensive, for me at the time, lunch and I never heard from them again.

I would have been happy even if they had tried to steal the idea and make it go with a real company like GM or Ford, but nothing ever came of it.


roadster with a stick

 

I know recharging at night, all night is what is being discussed but years ago I ran 12th scale electric RC cars and found you could rapid charge the nicads. It seems we charged for 15 minutes to get an 8 minute run. The worry at that time was to much heat reduced the life of the batteries, so we were careful how fast we recharged. I'm guessing the real delima is using off hours to store unused and wasted energy and not putting a tax on the system during the day to create those brown out situations in Calif.

 

Sounds good, in theory at least.

S California will get the most attention with the electric car. Most folks and businesses "catch up" their cooling at night because the brown outs are usully during the day, late afternoon.

The grid is still operating at capacity well into the night, so to prevent overload at ten PM one would have to delay pluging up untill after midnight.
Think that will work?

Have you seen the lights and activity in S. Ca after dark. Not much energy conservation going on. La La Land mentality vrs Real World.

No matter what, those folks have got to change their lifestyle, or their politics, to make it work.


roadster with a stick.

 

Hopefully this car will come to America and will not be taxed to death with new taxes invented to discourage technology like this. Unfortunately most of the "big boy" politicians own or at least own stock in oil companies.

 

Do we have a problem(?), cause that is my sig.

Roadster with a stick

 

I'm orginnaly from Calif. years ago, and you are right they need some major help out there. If they would allow nuclear to take over they could solve some of their energy issues. Talk about lights in Calif., how about a drive to Vegas? Now there is city that really understands the energy issues. LOL

I just came back from a vacation through the midwest, although it won't mean much in the grand scheme of things, the wind generation that is being built in Kansas is pretty impressive. It would seem that if you were a major corp with factories it would make sense to build in a place like that and build your own power grid to support your buildings. I'm sure there are plenty of incentives. Storage I guess is the issue?

 

We actualy have a company here in St. Louis, virtually downtown, that has a wind mill to power the office and has done remarkable "green" engineering. Took forever to get the idea past the zoning and objecting neighbors, but at least their empoyees don't have to drive 45 miles out into the country to have a wind powered office.

The unit can operate at night as well, putting power into the grid, thereby reducing the coal burning at the local power plant. So far, no one wants to sleep with the "Swish, Swish, Swish" all night.

roadster with a stick

 

Just the sound of the ocean for those in Calif. I've read some articles on wind generation and its is not the solve all but it seems that if enough different types alternative power were used it might have some impact. Remember back in the 70's( ?) when solar for homes was the ticket? It never really caught on, although it isteresting that they are now looking at that type of energy again in Calif., using the roofs of all the major buildings to generate power. This is totally off the subject of cars, I guess I need to shut up. Have a great week.