- Yeah, on top of the price of the ESC add a blow off valve. They aren't needed for 5-8 psi but I sure would get one.
"A Blow-Off Valve (BOV) can be used as well. They make the 'hissing' sound usually heard on turbo cars. You will get that same sound when shifting of lifting of the throttle. The adjustable ones are $85-$250. The Turbo XS high boost version or similar work great" (Thomas Knight, installation instructions).

- Don't pay attention to Dynamics he is very negative about everything and that is mostly because he can not afford them or put the time to study them out.

 

Gentlemen,
This is Thomas Knight. I will be happy to add some additional info for your consideration. The alternator Mounted Belt Drive Turbo (AM-BDT) and the ESC are different in their power source. The Crossfire does not have the room for an AM-BDT, so we are speaking about an ESC. Our early ESC units used an Eaton supercharger combined with three 5 hp electric motors. In 2003 we upgraded to centrifugal units which have greater efficiency. When dealing with a limited amount of HP to drive a supercharger, the less power lost to heat and inefficiencies means greater boost and power available to the engine. Eaton units are 58% efficient, while our newest design is 78% efficient. We also don't run more than 5 psi, as to my knowledge not a single engine in history has blown up at 5 psi. The pressures and stress are just too low. This 5 psi limit plus the higher efficiency of the design has allowed us to use a single 8 hp motor to power the ESC-350, and our larger models -- ESC-550 and ESC-750 use motors that produce up to 26 hp @ 72 volts. The simplified formula for drive power is 3.5 hp per 1,000cc per 5 psi. a 3.2 needs 3.2 x 3.5, or 11.2 hp. The larger units would work great, but require 48-96 volts to make 15+ hp, and are too large for the Crossfire engine bay. So if we consider the ESC-350 with an 8 hp motor, what can we expect? I installed one in a 3000GT with a 3.0 V6, a Diamante 3.5 V6, and an Infinity G35 3.5 V6. All three vehicles gained approx 70 wheel hp @ 3.5-5 psi. Off the line the boost is at 5 psi, and about 4k rpm boost will slowly drop to 3 psi @ 7k rpm on the G35. The G35 dropped 1 full sec off the 1/4 mile running 13.6's. (stock was 14.7) The 3000GT ran 15.6 stock, and 14.1 with the ESC. You guys should see similar gains.

 

Why not design a system around the Paxton Novi supercharger? I don't want to lug around a bunch of batteries in the trunk of my car. I'm more interested in a full time supercharger system.

I look forward to seeing someone on here mount the Thomas Knight system on the crossfire just to show what a little boost can do to 1/4 mile times. Keep us posted.

 

so the system is good for about 10 1/4 mile runs per hour correct?

 

seeing that mr. knight replied to this post i feel a bit more assured of the possibility of this product ... i have known of mr. knights products from the past vehicles i owned (dodge avenger, from asog forums) and his attempt to work with that rather similar crowd.

i have no doubt the system will add power just not sure how much ... my main concern is charging the secondary batteries ... i do not like the idea of trickle charging my auxiliaries all the time ... so i looked up a battery isolator like this one: http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...5&autoview=sku ... i would be interested to hear from mr. knight if he has used anything like this in his previous installs.

 

Mechanical supercharged system is a great idea for the Crossfire, but...

1. You are seriously limited on space in the engine bay. Even the SRT6 with it's factory supercharger replacing the upper manifold still requires more space than the Base and Limited models for the intercooler system.

2. If you are looking to put a Paxton type centrifugal super charger in a Crossfire, you will need a space along the accessory belt line to put it. Ain't none.

3. Lastly, if you want a roots type supercharger like the Renntech or what is stock on the SRT6 your cost will be over $20,000 for the Renntech and whatever you can get on a trade in for the SRT6 upgrade.

I'm sure that there is a way to get a mechanical supercharger system installed in a Base or Limited model, but it's going to require some SERIOUS engineering to make it fit and function.

As to the ESC... I think it could be a viable alternative for folks to use. Based on the system design and the new motor technology (materials, windings, etc.) there is still room to get even more out of a system like that as time marches on.

Thomas,

I'd like to thank you for taking time out of your schedule to post to our little gray matter tug-of-war here and put in some solid information.

Cheers everyone!

 

Well let's say for grins, that there is a centrifugal supercharger available that will easily bolt up to the XF, and it comes with every part required to get the job done, my question is...How much would people be willing to pay for such a kit that drops into the Limited Crossfire?

 

If it was a proven system that really required minimal modification (less than 3 hr of modification time not including install time) made 75+ hp and it was for everything!

It also has to be well constructed no erector set crap and reliable on a daily driver.
$5,000.

 

$2,000 ... cause i can build my own remote mount turbo system for $1,500 and guarantee it to be of better quality ... but still, we should not discuss this here ... this should be kept on topic of the ESC system which is a great alternative ...

mr. knight, does the ESC system restrict flow when it is not on ? i assume yes ... really would like to know what size is the inlet and outlet on the compressor housing ...

 

why do you ask? do you have a lead on something?

 

This is exactly the problem with a custom system for so many cars. The cost is prohibitive to build a Paxton, Vortech, etc. And there is no space. It would require a tremendous number of mods to many accessories, and cutting of sheet metal. etc to fit a centrifugal belt drive unit on the Crossfire. I went to my local Chrysler dealer today to see if there was a Crossfire demo I could buy and use to design a kit. At first it appears there is room, but it is impossible to fit anything but a Rotrex in there, and it would be tight no matter what. Paxton, Vortech, etc are too thick to fit. I would up buying a new Durango V6 as there is a large demand for belt drive power and the kit is very simple to design. We purchased a new Magnum last month to do the same. A post by Timelord reflects the manner in which electric power is changing every week. With Li-poly batteries and 3-phase brushless motors, a super-efficient design is possible right now. But a 10KW electric motor spinning 65k costs $1,000. Add the $1,000 controller, the machining for the impeller and housings, Lipoly bats for $2,500, a DC-DC 12-60VDC converter ($1,000), and you reach $5k immediately. Three years ago this cost $10,000 to build (I did one), and it is already half the cost. If a brush-type high efficiency motor were to replace the standard motor on the ESC, and the bats were replaced with li-poly in a few years, the run time would quadruple and the recharge time would be 25% of what it is now. The basic BDT head unit will remain as it is for at least 4 years, as it is right at 80% efficient -- better than any centrifugal supercharger available with only a rare exception.

 

With all the x fires out there why hasn’t anyone attempted the Thomas Knight install?
I would be willing to attempt it on mine if I could get the mechanical help required to install.
Meaning that I would pony up the cost for parts from Thomas Knight.

 

Nice, keep us posted.

 

This is an e-mail to T. Knight:
I understand that for the $1,400 I will get one blower.
- So is it the 1,000cc blower?
- 5 PSI right?
- Then what comes with the ESC?
Thanks,
Paul


NO -- IT IS THE ESC-350 WITH THE 8 HP MOTOR, CAPABLE OF HANDLING THE 3.2 V6 TO 5,000 RPM. YOU GET A BOOST GAUGE, 12-24 SERIES/PARALLEL & ACTIVATION SWITCH. YOU WILL NEED to make a pipe to go from the esc to the throttle body, and the air filter would go directly on the esc.

THOMAS (GEOFF) KNIGHT

 

Are there any installation pictures so I can see how they ran the extra pipe needed for the install?

PSUPERTI where are you located?

AJ

 

I'm live in North UT for now. But it looks like the Army is sending me to Arizona in May 2007.
TiamoPhoto, I want to tell you I've got the cash to buy this, but I'm short the install $. So I not going to get it for a while, plus I don't think I would be a good person to be the 1st to get this. Because not a lot of people believed me on what I wrote about the Super e-ram kit and Nitrous kit that I currently have.

 

When you come out to Arizona, I would like for you to show me what your Xfire's got a ride possibly.

 

That's a promise!

 

That makes 2 of us...

 

finally... the turbo sound w/o the cost.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=120051122515

too funny.