Too complex electric gizmometry
 

2003 manual coupe 88K miles. I very much like my Crossfire, almost as much as I did my 1963 3.8 Jaguar E type 50 years ago, but after 5 years of XF ownership the constant electrical niggles are depressing. I can not help but compare the electrical simplicity of the E type to the electricians nightmare sitting in my driveway. Time now for a new M.O.T. and having trouble sorting the BAS/ESP/ABS dash warning lights, intermittent speedometer plus spoiler up not responding to dash switch with flashing light. I have no access to top end diagnostics but my device shows no stored codes or pending codes. There was a P0500 code in pending which has not returned since an erase. I have checked all 4 ABS wheel speed sensors/rings/connections, new battery and RCU and beginning to suspect the CAB being at fault. I will get to the bottom of it eventually but living in the far North of Scotland with no other local XF owners or reliable Chrysler/Mercedes specialists to to fall back on, this forum is my only sure support.
Back to the E type XF comparison........the E type capable of almost 150 mph did not have ABS or any of the other electrical comforts, in my opinion my Crossfire does not need them either. With the maximum speed limit in the UK being 70 mph who needs a spoiler or many other sensors fitted as standard to the XF So my question is, at the risk of upsetting some younger owners, has anybody disabled the ABS system? While I know I need to retain the CAB for a digital signal to the speedometer, ( what was wrong with speedo cables?), the brake servo looks big enough to work without the electrical assistance it gets.
As the spares situation becomes more difficult, if we could simplify or even get rid of the most annoying common problems, then we might encourage the next generation to contemplate ownership of this much maligned sports car.
PS Does anyone know the exact resistance figures for the ABS wheel speed sensors to test with a multi meter, can't find info in manual.

Re: Too complex electric gizmometry
 

Hello,
Does your code reader read Mercedes Codes?
I have read here that the speed sensors are most likely your issue.
8P (1495) in the service manual for the speed control diagnostics.
Great thread with a lot of your same symptoms below.
https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...tml#post958478
I hope this helps.
Please follow up on your repair so we may all learn.

Re: Too complex electric gizmometry
 

shortspoon, I have measured ohms on the Crossfire wheel speed sensors and have gotten measurements which do not fall within a small enough range to make any sense to me in determining a good from bad sensor. However, if you disconnect the speed sensor near the wheel at the electrical connector you should get 10v ~ 12v going to the speed sensor with the ignition on. If that voltage is there then you probably have a bad sensor. A proper diagnostic tool would give you a better idea as to which exact speed sensor is bad.
As to disconnecting the entire stability and ABS system with you having a manual transmission you could remove the 50 amp fuse ( it is well marked) in the small black box just in front of the cars battery. I would certainly go for the wheel speed sensors first! If you do disconnect the 50 amp fuse be certain your brake lights still function. On a SRT 6 removing that fuse will cause the rear brake lights to stop working, but on your car I think you will be okay. Also for your info replacing the CAB is really easy. Even doing it for the first time it shouldn't take much over a hour and requires simple tools. Used CAB is available on ebay at a reasonable price.

Re: Too complex electric gizmometry
 

Hello guys, thanks for your response, apologies for the slow reply.
Doc78, yes my code reader will read basic codes on any vehicle with a 16 cavity DLC, it's an Autolink AL319 by Autel OBD11 and CAN code reader. Good for reading basic codes but will not offer lower link manufacturer info, hence the P0500 reading I had in the pending code section indicating ABS speed sensors. An OBD111 tool will tell you which sensor is giving trouble.
I had read the link you gave to similar problems, very good info, thank you. I will write up any positive information as I progress.
zip439, point taken, I should have checked the obvious first so will run a check on the harness wires back from the under wheel arch connections just in case some varmint has had a chew. I had previously checked out a full set of speed sensors which I had changed when I first got the car, the readings varied between 0.8 and 1 kiloohms which did not give me any confidence to identify which sensor was the culprit. This reading also seems a little low as on other cars I know of it should be between 1.5 and 1.7. A reading that continues to climb indicates a duff sensor. I will pull the 50 amp fuse and let you know the outcome. Love some of the mods you have made to your XF, do you know of any SRT6 look alike spoiler supplier, although I do not need a spoiler I think it might just improve the side on looks of the rather canine looking back end. Getting rid of the original spoiler would be a bonus anyway.

Re: Too complex electric gizmometry
 

shortspoon,

If you are running an older battery - replace it today. Also, consider doing one of the mods in this thread, (it would cost very little) and go from there:
https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...le-engine.html

Re: Too complex electric gizmometry
 

Thanks for the info PIZZAGUY the battery is less than one year old and holding 12.7v. it carries a 5 year guarantee. The extra earth wire is on my to-do list

Re: Too complex electric gizmometry
 

New battery to engine ground cable fitted, RHD vehicles need 150cm length with 6.5 and 10.3 flat ring terminals. A 170 amp 10.6mm dia cable can be had from Electrical Car Services for £18.38 + postage + VAT. You will also need an E16 socket to remove the bell housing bolt. I located a parasitic battery drain which turned out to be the radio......easily delt with by pulling the fuse. Could never figure out why the radio used to come on on its own when ignition was first switched on.
Still no joy on getting rid of ABS/BAS/ESP dash lights, plus spoiler has a mind of its own. Speedo now works AOK.

Re: Too complex electric gizmometry
 

shortspoon, a bad brake light switch is know to cause the wing to deploy and the BAS/ESP warning light to turn on. The switch is located under the dash above the brake peddle. The brake light relay is located in the fuse box under the hood; You need to unsnap the upper tray with all the fuses up and get it out of the way to access the relays near the rear of the fuse box.
Have you tested all the wheel speed sensor circuits for 10 ~12v?? I hate seeing you toss parts at it trying to find the one which corrects your problem. Perhaps buying a good scan tool will save you money and time. You can get one that will do the job for about $200.00 or less.

Re: Too complex electric gizmometry
 

ZIP439
Thanks for your continued support, yes I did measure the voltage supply as per your suggestion and got positive 10v + readings to all four speed sensors. Also checked all reluctor rings for damage and cleaned away surface rust. I have a new brake light switch winging its way from Amazon US, (not available this side of the pond). I did have a moments success after switching the RCM to an old one I have when switching the ignition on, I did this to check if the traction control relay was working in it or not, (it was not), the ABS/BAS/ESP dash lights went off for a couple of seconds! This makes me suspect a cracked solder joint in one of the push in connectors to the RCM, when it stops raining, ( I do not have a garage), I will check them out. My new RCM is working with all relays active as they should be. I plan on replacing the tired relays in the old module with 40amp American Zettler new ones. Again I shall have to wait for some to arrive from supplier in the US.
By the way, unhooking the the large ABS fuse does not seem to make much difference to the stopping capability under heavy braking, neither does it prevent the stop lights working on my manual transmission model.

Re: Too complex electric gizmometry
 

Another forum member, also with a manual transmission, has been running his car with the 50amp fuse out for years. He was fed up with the car applying the brakes to the outside wheel when making a fast exit from parking lots and getting into the flow of traffic. Good luck with your problems/corrections.

Re: Too complex electric gizmometry
 

Latest update,
Amazon USA failed to deliver, further ferreting about revealed the correct switch for my 2003 manual coupe with same SLS384 part number from a UK supplier..........all good except it is the wrong switch. Today I removed the original one which has only 4 contacts, not 6, and a shorter push rod. See photos attached. The switch is a very common type and fitted to many different vehicles, the part number is 0015450109. Just be careful to get one with the correct length of push rod.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cro...ea8abef39d.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cro...cd213aa9c0.jpg
Correct switch on the right 0015450109

Re: Too complex electric gizmometry
 

I would hesitate it trying to disable any of the gizmos, once in my ‘04 I made a left hand turn too fast and too sharply in the rain and the rear end slid away, and then before I could react and correct it manually I felt a jerk as the car was pulled back on track and I was facing the correct direction. I am sure without this help I would have slid rear end first into the ditch on this rural road.

Re: Too complex electric gizmometry
 

This is interesting. It appears that the manual has a different brake switch than an automatic. On the automatic cars the white end piece comes as part of the switch MB # 0015456409, but on the manual as in your picture their is no white piece on the end of the switch and the MB part number is 0015450109. That or they used a different set up on the European models? Also, the wires are different between the SRT6 and the N/A.

Re: Too complex electric gizmometry
 

On the manual you have to keep your foot on the clutch and brake, on the auto you do not have to keep your foot on the brake when starting.

Re: Too complex electric gizmometry
 

On my '05 manual trans, you did not have to have your foot on the brake to start the car. Only the clutch had to be disengaged.

Re: Too complex electric gizmometry
 

True but even on a slight slope, it is good practice. I should have made that clear. I did have a manual '04 at one time.
A disengaged clutch is not guaranteed when the clutch pedal is pushed just a bit too little.
I can always rely on you to pick any holes in my posts. :)

Re: Too complex electric gizmometry
 

onehundred80
I understand and appreciate your concern over disabling any original systems, these are all good when working correctly. I still have a problem getting the car through an MOT test without which I can not tax or keep running the vehicle. An illuminated ABS light is an automatic failure.
Perhaps its an age thing on my part but like the pilots of the ill fated Boeing 737 Max 8 which had an electric power system not working correctly, I prefer to feel whats going on and make my own corrections when driving.
My car drives, handles and stops very well and performs all round much safer than the requirements for the MOT test, I have checked this out on a rolling road, so if all else fails I have the ultimate solution.
If you remove two bulbs, (ABS/BAS and ESP), from the instrument panel, there will be NO LIGHTS. The bulb out warning light only indicates external light failures, but should this turn out to be a problem I will remove that as well. The occasional backup to shop window check works well.
As for the not required unless breaking the speed limit spoiler, (70 mph in UK), I plan on re-wireing the original dash switch so I can decide when to deploy and do away with the red flashing light.
It seems to me that the original wiring system in these cars is over complex which creates multiple problems when any one malfunction occurs.