TPMS stem leak - Firestone vs. Discount Tire
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TPMS stem leak - Firestone vs. Discount Tire
So on the way home from the parts store (with new bulbs for side and front markers, and new wipers), the TPMS light comes on. Checked all four the next day, and the left rear was down to 14PSI. Rolled the car back and forth but saw no nail/screw or tread damage. The following day. dead flat.
Luckily the factory jack and tools are in the trunk of our just-acquired 174k-mile 2004 coupe, so I jack & remove the wheel, place jack stand, and head to Firestone (closest place) just before business close. The desk manager believes it's a loose bead due to seasonal temperature change, and has me sign a work order for $20 flat repair.
I call the next morning at 9:30AM (having heard nothing) and the current desk jockey has decided that they don't have a machine capable of handling 35-series tires, and that I'd be better off at a generic rim shop or Discount tire (funny they couldn't tell me that the night before). I have my son call Discount tire, confirm they'll look at it, and run the wheel over there. When I pick it up after work, the manager there tells me it was a TPMS stem leak; they installed a TMPS stem repair kit & re-balanced, and I'm good to go AT NO CHARGE.
He may have been eyeing the 40% tread and looking forward to my business on a $1000 new set, but I was sure grateful for the correct troubleshooting and no hit to the teenage wallet. And my son got to rehearse his tire installation skills/get familiar with the supplied jack & iron on the flipside.
Wife's 2009 Wrangler Unlimited has had TPMS issues too - the aluminum stem on the spare's TPMS corroded away to where it went flat and would not take air (Firestone replaced for $100 with a rubber-stem one); other metal stems have cracked hex nuts, and I had Sam's club replace a TMPS that was broken off via a teenage accident (hence my hurry to get the spare fixed) for a low $55. But the system has still not recognized that rubber-stemmed sensor (it registered the Firestone-supplied spare sensor within a ten miles) so back to Sam's I go...
The TPMS system is helpful and expensive/aggravating in roughly equal measure, methinks. Curious what tire shop service experiences others have had with these specialty tires/TPMS.
Luckily the factory jack and tools are in the trunk of our just-acquired 174k-mile 2004 coupe, so I jack & remove the wheel, place jack stand, and head to Firestone (closest place) just before business close. The desk manager believes it's a loose bead due to seasonal temperature change, and has me sign a work order for $20 flat repair.
I call the next morning at 9:30AM (having heard nothing) and the current desk jockey has decided that they don't have a machine capable of handling 35-series tires, and that I'd be better off at a generic rim shop or Discount tire (funny they couldn't tell me that the night before). I have my son call Discount tire, confirm they'll look at it, and run the wheel over there. When I pick it up after work, the manager there tells me it was a TPMS stem leak; they installed a TMPS stem repair kit & re-balanced, and I'm good to go AT NO CHARGE.
He may have been eyeing the 40% tread and looking forward to my business on a $1000 new set, but I was sure grateful for the correct troubleshooting and no hit to the teenage wallet. And my son got to rehearse his tire installation skills/get familiar with the supplied jack & iron on the flipside.
Wife's 2009 Wrangler Unlimited has had TPMS issues too - the aluminum stem on the spare's TPMS corroded away to where it went flat and would not take air (Firestone replaced for $100 with a rubber-stem one); other metal stems have cracked hex nuts, and I had Sam's club replace a TMPS that was broken off via a teenage accident (hence my hurry to get the spare fixed) for a low $55. But the system has still not recognized that rubber-stemmed sensor (it registered the Firestone-supplied spare sensor within a ten miles) so back to Sam's I go...
The TPMS system is helpful and expensive/aggravating in roughly equal measure, methinks. Curious what tire shop service experiences others have had with these specialty tires/TPMS.
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Re: TPMS stem leak - Firestone vs. Discount Tire
I want to confirm appreciation of Discount Tire, they do flat repairs free as policy. A couple women have suggested / assumed they got such service due to their charms, but even I have been beneficiary of this policy.
My local Discount Tire just disappointed, but didn't surprise me, about replacing Crossfire TPMS sensors. At least one of mine had gone bad, detected by the light coming on intermittently, then constantly, despite adequate pressure in all tires. I was also overdue for new tires, and Discount Tire gave me a good price on the all season Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06 (as good a price as TireRack). So went to my local Discount Tire, told about the TPMS issue, they were sure they could fix.
But first goof was they completed new tire installation before checking TPMS sensors. Only after completely installing, balancing, putting the car back on the ground did they try to check the TPMS. A general rule for TPMS service is that a shop should check sensors before touching the car. Some of the early factory sensors on Crossfire might need a magnet to trigger the sensor to transmit, which is not what shops expect. Seems nearly all sensors since about 2004 can be triggered by a Low Frequency (LF) radio signal either from the vehicle or from a TPMS testing tool. Crossfire does not have the equipment to send this LF trigger, although many / most techs will probably assume the car can do this. Because most other Chrysler vehicles just handle registration / relearn of new TPMS sensors on their own. Just not Crossfire.
So second goof was that the Discount Tire hand held TPMS diagnostic tool reported that only the rear tires were sending signals, which include pressure, temperature, and sensor ID. Only after leaving did I think they should have also tried using a magnet to trigger the sensor, since this is the method the Crossfire Service Manual and the DRB III system tells a tech to use. They also did a little more research and decided that they did not have the proper sensor to replace, and that the car would have to go to a dealer to relearn the new sensor IDs.
They almost certainly did have sensors which would have worked, since the same sensors were used on several other early 2000's Chrysler products, including minivans. And were used on Viper until 2010 model year. But most TPMS references do report that a trip to a Chrysler dealership is required to train the car, to "relearn" the TPMS sensor IDs.
Other posts to this Forum have repeatedly confirmed that the only KNOWN way to replace Crossfire TPMS sensors is with Schrader (factory supplier) sensors, then find a Chrysler dealership with the DRB III scan tool (obsolete in 2007) plus a special multiplexer box (for Crossfire and Sprinter) and a special DRB III software card just for Crossfire. Many Chrysler dealerships either never obtained this set of tools, or have lost or forgotten about them.
In concept it should be possible to read the sensor IDs from existing Crossfire TPMS sensors and program new "blank" sensors, to "clone" them, avoiding the trick of finding the special DRB III plus box plus card plus a dealership willing to use them (for $120+).
But so far I have been told that if the existing wheel mounted sensor battery is completely dead, there is not a way to clone it. Although the ID is also printed on a label on the sensor, that label might be obscured, and the cloning tools don't have any way to enter an ID except to read the ID via radio signal.
I am still working to learn more details. And I am glad you were treated well by Discount Tire, they did the right things if they found just replacing the stem of the TPMS unit would fix the problem. But since most of our sensors are at least 10 years old now, the batteries shouldn't be expected to last much longer. So lots more of us will need to replace TPMS sensors, soon.
Clint
My local Discount Tire just disappointed, but didn't surprise me, about replacing Crossfire TPMS sensors. At least one of mine had gone bad, detected by the light coming on intermittently, then constantly, despite adequate pressure in all tires. I was also overdue for new tires, and Discount Tire gave me a good price on the all season Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06 (as good a price as TireRack). So went to my local Discount Tire, told about the TPMS issue, they were sure they could fix.
But first goof was they completed new tire installation before checking TPMS sensors. Only after completely installing, balancing, putting the car back on the ground did they try to check the TPMS. A general rule for TPMS service is that a shop should check sensors before touching the car. Some of the early factory sensors on Crossfire might need a magnet to trigger the sensor to transmit, which is not what shops expect. Seems nearly all sensors since about 2004 can be triggered by a Low Frequency (LF) radio signal either from the vehicle or from a TPMS testing tool. Crossfire does not have the equipment to send this LF trigger, although many / most techs will probably assume the car can do this. Because most other Chrysler vehicles just handle registration / relearn of new TPMS sensors on their own. Just not Crossfire.
So second goof was that the Discount Tire hand held TPMS diagnostic tool reported that only the rear tires were sending signals, which include pressure, temperature, and sensor ID. Only after leaving did I think they should have also tried using a magnet to trigger the sensor, since this is the method the Crossfire Service Manual and the DRB III system tells a tech to use. They also did a little more research and decided that they did not have the proper sensor to replace, and that the car would have to go to a dealer to relearn the new sensor IDs.
They almost certainly did have sensors which would have worked, since the same sensors were used on several other early 2000's Chrysler products, including minivans. And were used on Viper until 2010 model year. But most TPMS references do report that a trip to a Chrysler dealership is required to train the car, to "relearn" the TPMS sensor IDs.
Other posts to this Forum have repeatedly confirmed that the only KNOWN way to replace Crossfire TPMS sensors is with Schrader (factory supplier) sensors, then find a Chrysler dealership with the DRB III scan tool (obsolete in 2007) plus a special multiplexer box (for Crossfire and Sprinter) and a special DRB III software card just for Crossfire. Many Chrysler dealerships either never obtained this set of tools, or have lost or forgotten about them.
In concept it should be possible to read the sensor IDs from existing Crossfire TPMS sensors and program new "blank" sensors, to "clone" them, avoiding the trick of finding the special DRB III plus box plus card plus a dealership willing to use them (for $120+).
But so far I have been told that if the existing wheel mounted sensor battery is completely dead, there is not a way to clone it. Although the ID is also printed on a label on the sensor, that label might be obscured, and the cloning tools don't have any way to enter an ID except to read the ID via radio signal.
I am still working to learn more details. And I am glad you were treated well by Discount Tire, they did the right things if they found just replacing the stem of the TPMS unit would fix the problem. But since most of our sensors are at least 10 years old now, the batteries shouldn't be expected to last much longer. So lots more of us will need to replace TPMS sensors, soon.
Clint
Re: TPMS stem leak - Firestone vs. Discount Tire
Re: TPMS stem leak - Firestone vs. Discount Tire
I just had two of the aluminum stems fail in my dodge ram and leak, took me by surprise
I have replaced them with rubber stems on the dodge and will do it to the crossfire next tire change.
I dont like the issue of the sensors as I have like 4 sets of wheels for the road and autocrossing and dont need the hassel of the light being on. Have bought the pressure sensing caps that change color from green to red if low on pressure. Put them on my 73 challenger also and love them. You can get them for like 2 dollars SHIPPED to you from ebay, I can suggest them for older cars and ones you get tired of spending money on TPS's.
Just a thought, with Rudys help I have disabled the dash light also, what a relief.
Enjoy W
DY
I have replaced them with rubber stems on the dodge and will do it to the crossfire next tire change.
I dont like the issue of the sensors as I have like 4 sets of wheels for the road and autocrossing and dont need the hassel of the light being on. Have bought the pressure sensing caps that change color from green to red if low on pressure. Put them on my 73 challenger also and love them. You can get them for like 2 dollars SHIPPED to you from ebay, I can suggest them for older cars and ones you get tired of spending money on TPS's.
Just a thought, with Rudys help I have disabled the dash light also, what a relief.
Enjoy W
DY
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