Hi Guys,

Anyone know exactly what is the power rating for the front speakers? are they bi-amped? I am thinking of keeping the amplifier but changing the Speakers to CDT Euro Sport. This way, i don't have to rewire much. Was even thinking of not using the subwoofer. I have the CDT install in my Mercedes C-Class and it sounded great. Even when its without rear spkrs and subwoofer. Now i am ready to install it onto my new Crossfire Roadster. Here is what i am planning to do. Any help from you guys will be much appreciated.

PLAN A
Changing the front speakers to CDT ES-06+ (6.5inch Mid/Sub Driver, mounting depth 3.5") & ES-02 (2" wide range mid tweeter). Using the amp and build-in crossover from the amp. Unplug the factory subwoofer. Any idea can the 6.5" fit in?

PLAN B
Changing all the speakers to CDT Component. DRT-26 1" Dome Tweeter, ES-04 4" ultra wide range mid-range and 6.5" Extended Mid Bass. Using the original setting from the build-in crossover in the amp. Just replace all the speakers.

Thanks guy!

Eddy

 

~ an '07 crossfire??

 

I just found out from the dealer that its a '06 Model. Even though I bought it March '07, it a '06 Model Manufactured in '06.

Cheers,

Eddy

 

First off need more info on the speakers you want to use...

The factory amp includes the crossovers, EQ, speed sensitive EQ, limiters, and delay. it is a 6 channel amplifier designed to run at 2 ohms. Two channels (full range + highpass on the low end) run the doors, 4 channels are used to run the pair of dual coil woofers behind the seats with a low pass filter.

1. If your speaker of choice is 4 ohms you are going to loose half the power of the amp
2. The EQ is set for the speakers that are in the car so don't be surprised if the new speakers don't sound as good as you thought they would.
3. Wath the size of the magnet on the door speakers and check the tweeter mounting as the tweeter from the factory is situated in a waveguide.

 

Hello Infinity,

Thank you for your help.

Looks like I will probably change the head unit to a PIONEER AVH-P7850DVD unit with 50W x 8 channel. I will make use of 4 channel to bi-amp the front speakers (CDT ES-06 mid-range, DRT-21 Tweeter) with the built-in amplifier from the headunit. 2 Channel to connect to the Infinity amp for the build-in subwoofer and balance 2 channel for CDT Upstage UP-519XT tweeters on A-Pillar. You reckon it will work?

Cheers,

Eddy

 

That would depend on a couple of factors.

Looking at the info provided by Pioneer it looks like bi-amping the front channels with the head units is going to work, however the other channels are in question, and while the amp says 50 watts that is a stretch with a bit of marketing added in for good measure if it is a BTL amplifier design. The limit there is about 20 watts per channel and that is really the top end, so if CDT recommends an amp of a certain size you might want to see what that is for comparison, and see if their crossovers allow for bi-amping.

If your going to use the factory amp to drive the factory subs, then the factory amp needs to see a full range signal and if you configure the radio the way you are talking about doing you, will be restricted to pulling that signal from the back channels. If you don't use any of the processing in the radio then it should work, but engage anything from the EQ or the surround modes and the signal will be altered (surround information) and as such be out of sync with the front channel content (no bass and rolled off high end with its of reverb).

 

Hello Infinity,

Thank you for your assistant. I remembered someone in the FORUM saying that its possible to split the signal thats going into the amplifier. Any possibility of me sending the FRONT pre-out and SUB pre-out from the head unit to the factory amplifier? This way i can tune the front and subwoofer separately. Also, do you know where is the crossover for the factory door component speakers? Any idea how much power the factory amplifier are giving out to the front speakers? You reckon the factory amp will be better than the head unit's 50 watt?

Cheers,

Eddy

 

The input to the factory amp is two channel full range, so to answer your first question, no. Factory crossover is electronically done in the amp for the woofer and the tweeter has a cap on it for its basic crossover...the rest is handled in the amp. Factory amp is 40x6 at 2 ohms so its power is close to the head units.

 

NOT TRUE!!! The factory amp input is four channel.. If you pull out the factory amp from the passenger side footwell, there are 4 channels of input.. Unfortunately, to save money or whatever, infinity joined the wires about 6 inches up the harness from the amp, with the front channel inputs.... This is why you don't have sub control...

See my other post...

https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...ead.php?t=9057

There is a PDF with the diagram of the wiring...

As far as changing speakers goes, just replace the deck and amp instead...
The stock speakers aren't bad at all, but the amp is garbage, and the deck sounds like any OEM deck "compressed". I put in the Focal 4-channel amp, and the fronts alone have more bass than the whole factory system... Every manufacturer cuts costs on the stereo somewhere... Usually the amplifier, then the deck, then the speakers...

 

As you have discovered there is something more going on inside the factory amplifier. That is because there is more in that silver box than just an amp. Essentially all of the filters are now out of your system so you are free of all the design elements in the factory system. That means all the time delay for all the drivers, compression circuits to protect the drivers, eq/filters, and, virtual center channel processing. Also gone is the DSP signal mixing too.

While the amp in the car will be fed the way the wiring diagram shows I approached this from the position of the head unit wire harness for implicitly and such feeding it with two channels to drive the sub and his deck to drive his speakers. So its application correct.

As for cost cutting, it is not always the case as you submit. In the automotive space speakers are generally the place where costs are cut first because their short falls can in many cases be corrected with DSP software. Head unit performance can generally be overcome too, but in many instances the "parts" are very similar if not identical to the aftermarket units in production.

The head unit is generally seen as a combined system these days with the amplification system and what drives this is the need for something more than sound. In almost all cases the systems are presented to a company based on their criteria and technology advances tied into other systems (this is where the ides of infotainment comes from).

So for example say a car company was in talks say four years ago for a system, would they be thinking about adding a jack for an Ipod or a system to control one? What they would be thinking as they brought the car to market three years later (generally the length of time it takes form concept to production), we should have had an ipod interface, alas but one was not available at the time. So they took the approach in the next year to add a aux input jack on the new models, and only now are we beginning to see Ipod, MP3, and hard drives in the car as factory options.

Take BMW for an example, they are seen in the market as a cutting edge drivers car with a focus on delivering high technology in their vehicles ahead of other, hence devices like iDrive, Navigation, and Logic 7 (surround sound in the car) are presented as leading performance advantages offer their competition. The are willing in most cases to push their partners to deliver the best experience and deliver it on time, at budget, and hit the performance target. Others companies might look at it from a cost of content for a vehicle, such might have been the case in the Crossfire, again Chryslers decision. This might have been done to keep costs in line, other companies were not able to deliver a product on their timeline, or they felt their target customer would not be interested in the additional items and simply chose to allocate those costs to other items in the car.

Sure if we all could go back in time and change the world we would want better, I would want a MyGig in my Crossfire SRT6.

The amp in the car is by no means equal to a much larger robust amplifier, they are simply BTL amplifiers developed with a specific use case in mind. In short they are designed to work within the system. Tuning of that system is not always the part of the brand on the radio/door, in some cases the car company will tinker with their own acoustics engineers to bring a system closer to what their customers think they want, or to overcome design changes that alter the total acoustic environment (new exhaust note, fan noise, wind noise, road noise from tires, ect.).

 

So what you are trying to convince me into trying is leaving the factory amp, and all the electronic processing that comes along with it, and take it's outputs and use them as the inputs for my "bigger" amplifier... and my stereo will sound even better...

Now I'm curious...

Also, maybe you can tell us where we can purchase Becker head units other than ebay, considering Becker.de and the U.S. and Canadian Harman distributors refer us to http://www.beckerautosound.com/ ...These guys only sell parts, and do repairs...that is if they answer the phone, and after giving you attitude as though they are doing you, the customer, a favor.

I love infinity products, and Becker decks..Heck I even have my "Beta" gear from back in the day still in a box. lol... Just wish there was a way to buy the decks easily...Hell, I know of at least 4 stores in my area that would carry the products...

Let us know Infinity...

 

I will look into it for you. Becker is really just an OE division here in the US. As you mentioned Europe is a different story (they seem to get some really cool toys there).

The challenge is that some of the EU models won't work here without some software revisions (for NAV and radio tuner).

If there are particular items you would like me to look into for you PM me and I can see what can be done.

 

Infinity

Have you had a look at the sub's?

I was also under the impression the they are duel coil. But the service manual trouble shooting section says there are powered subs. Two wires are plus and minus signal. The other two are power and ground.

 

Yes they are dual coil and the diagrams show supply voltage as if to suggest some sort of amplifier is at the speaker. This is how older Infinity systems were done i.e. Caravan Minivans, but this is not the case in the crossfire.