Ok, so I've read a ton of posts where people are worried about parts and model discontinuation etc. due to the recent selling of Chrysler.

Well, guess what? Daimler still owns 19% of Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge. You know why? So that parts and component sharing on existing models can continue.

Furthermore, I don't understand why Chrysler is having problems? The 300 series has been a top seller since it was introduced. The vans still sell well and the Sebring convert. is one of the top selling affordable convertibles around. Dodge sells tons of Rams, Magnums, Chargers, and the Challenger is on the way. Jeep sells tons of Wranglers, Cherokees, and the other smaller utes. I mean, how many cars do you have to sell to keep your head above water these days?

 

My old girlfriend is involved. Her name is Miss Management.

Pete

 

Anyone spouting such doom and gloom about this or any other car is looking at a car as a simple appliance. They should have bought either an Accord or Camry and just been done with it. Heaven forbid someone with that attitude should win the Lottery and buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini. You want to see expensive parts and service???

 

I think much of the entire US auto industries problem is the over promised, underfunded, health, retirement, pay, cost of production. I really believe that "most" car models are made well, perform to their design, and will last their expected life if taken care of. I don't remember the numbers but the I do remember that total labor/manufacturing cost between US and foreign cars were way apart.

I don't want some flame about hating unions and such. It's just a fact. I think the failure of labor unions to keep things reasonable, the integrity of auto companies to be honest and fully fund their promises have cut their own throats and killed a golden goose called American domination of the auto industry.

Just one mans opinion.

 

I agree 100%.

 

I agree 100%, they gave in way too much to the unions when time were good...

 

hate to agree... but unions flat out lower productivity and raise expenses. some may argue it keeps employers from taking advantage i would argue it keeps americas work force lazier than they can afford to be.

 

I think the problem is with management. These guys want to maximize profits NOW, and don't plan enough for the future - because they don't personally plan to be in the same place in a decade. They're not invested in the future. Remember when the Japanese came on strong in the 1970s? American auto companies didn't take them seriously enough. Who leads in hybrids and fuel efficiency now that we are again facing high gas prices? In Japan, management is in it for the long haul - they stay with the company, here it seems like they jump in, make big promises, and then get gone with a big golden parachute. It's not the workers or the unions, it's the (bad) decision makers and their short sighted thinking. Look at GM. WTF do they have so many divisions for? What a waste! Still trying to sell the same "good enough" cars with different badges. So they then have to offer profit eating incentives to sell them. Stupid GM and their massive pachyderm SUVS with gas at $3/gallon. Maybe when they were making yet another extended version of the Escalade with 27' rims they should have been designing a Prius fighter. But they won't spend money now to reap profit down the road. They squeeze the lemon today. It's bad transient management that's ruining the American auto industry, and there's no need for it. America once made the world's best cars. We still should.

 

I think you bring up many valid points but you fail to look at both sides of this coin. If you think that only "big management" can be bad and yet leave "big labor" to spin it's web and provide golden parachutes and luxuries to themselves at the expense of the people they represent, you are denying the truth.

I personally do not believe in the principle of the entitlement state. This is a story the unions sold piece by piece to their members. In getting built in benefits and wages increased contract after contract, management and union leadership agreed because they would be gone when the chicken finally came home to roost. They both contributed to the demise of their own industry.

American cars can regain the mantle again but as you said, they both (management and labor) must look at their craft as a long term commitment.

 

Ask any Ford guy and he'll demand that his is the biggest. Of course, I'm talking about the F-350 Super Duty and Excursion.

"From its yacht-like boulevard cruisers of the early '70s to its more recent Super Duty pickups, Ford has long catered to buyers with king-sized transportation needs. The Ford Excursion followed in this tradition. This full-size SUV was manufactured between 2000 and 2005, and holds the distinction of being the longest and heaviest sport-utility vehicle ever produced." http://www.edmunds.com/ford/excursion/review.html

But seriously, regarding your comment, "These guys want to maximize profits NOW, and don't plan enough for the future - because they don't personally plan to be in the same place in a decade." Isn't that with just about everything today? We've become a service-oriented economy and, for the most part, not a very good one either.

 

But don't all the car manufacturers have labor (union) expenses? Toyota profit just keeps going up.

 

Yes, I guess that's true.

 

Of course, that is obvious. To repeat what I said several posts back, the labor costs built into each car for american vs foreign auto makers was huge. Now, could that be why Toyota's profits just keep going up?

Pretty basic math but kinda makes sense to me.

 

They obviously all have labor costs, but the question should be how much of the costs for domestic manufacturers are legacy costs, for employees that work for them 5, 10, 20 years ago. In the past foreign makers where making cars in their home nations. The governments provided benefits that the automakers in America provided, such as healthcare, retirement, etc.

This however is obviously not the entire story, if you look at TMS (Toyota Management System) you’ll see large differences from what is typical in America, empowerment of line employees, a less adversarial relationship with suppliers, better IT / Supply chain management, among other things.

The deals we’re getting on these cars are the result of the problems they’re facing.

 

I'm not an expert on the auto industry in general, or any specific manufacturer in particular, but my guess is costs of doing business (including labor) aside, Toyota profit keeps going up because they keep making cars people want to buy and have earned a reputation for solid, reliable cars that hold their value. I doubt Toyotas profit just keeps going up because they offer less attractive compensation packages to their workers than the American car companies do.

 

Thanks for a really interesting and enlightening post. All those issues I never even considered increasing costs incrementally. It's pretty complicated I guess.

Maybe there's hope. American cars have improved dramatically in the last decade or two. Even if they're generally not the envy of the world, at least they're not the **** boxes of the 70's and 80's (a very dark time for US cars, as we know). Who wouldn't love to have a new Corvette? Cadillac has some interesting models, too. The Ford Escape I had for a while my Xfire was in the shop seemed very solid - no squeaks or rattles (still hated it, though).

I never thought I'd own an American car (even one made in Germany from Merc parts). So that says something, too.

I hope the homegrown cars keep getting better.