Only did it that way for the video. Didn't want engine or exhaust drowning out the sound in video. All other times car was running. Battery is 6 months old. It's just weird how the window is held up properly when going down but not when putting top back up. Wouldn't that eliminate the cylinder?

 

Ok, done editing my post above................

 

I really think so.

I think there is a sequencer issue here - but I can't think of what would cause it, other than a sensor on one of the cylinders that is not acting right, causing the top module to foul up it's sequence.

THIS is a GOOD one, sir!

 

Once in a while the cycle will not finish. I had her stop and try to close for the video. Even when the top does complete the cycle, the result is still the same

 

Just a quick background on vehicle. I bought it this past December for my wife as a Christmas present. She wanted a "fun" vehicle. I have a couple of "fun" vehicles, I decided to get her this. It has 48,000 miles and a brand new top was installed previous to purchase. I do not know where it was done, but the previous owner said it cost him almost $2,000. I tested the top upon purchase, and there were no issues. She has used the top several times this spring with no issues. I had the dreaded "beep" happen one time last week. It wouldn't complete its top down cycle. I recycled and all was well. On occasion, it will do the same and I will repeat the above and it will be ok. I didn't have her do the complete cycle for the video so we could just get to the top up cycle. As info, at this time, it did not complete its top down cycle. But this issue has happened when all was well, top down cycle completed.

 

Ala_xfire will surely read this thread, let's see if he can come up with a theory.

This evening, I'm going to go thru the service manual and think about what it's doing - for some reason, it is not holding "up" pressure when the top goes UP but it does when it goes DOWN. Again, the sequence is not right , but I can't think of WHY it would act this way.

Never seen this in nine years with these cars....

 

Awesome! I appreciate all the help and responses. I generally don't post any issues I have with anything. Doing research and tinkering usually does the trick. I have researched to the best of my ability on this issue and have found nothing. I haven't owned the car enough to have the sequence down.

 

Best I can come up with is a travel sensor issue on the bow cylinder ( base side ) :

 

Are these sensors all the same, just in different locations? Can one be swapped with another to see if I can move the problem?

 

I really don't know. Wish Klaus would chime in, HE knows.

 

I appreciate your input. The factory manuals are worth there weight in gold! I've seen complete sets going for $400.00 or more. Thinking these are probably smuggled out of the dealerships. Most dealers won't deal with any vehicle older than 10 years old. Most techs bounce around so much, you probably couldn't find anyone familiar with the car.

 

I"ve had nothing but the electronic versions of all the documentation since 2009. Two years ago, I bought the wiring manual, which is actually just that one chapter from the service manual.

The wiring diagrams are incomplete and contain some errors. Also, there were some slight changes between Base/Limited/SRT and between the years. If I had actual, accurate documentation, things sure would be easier.

 

pizzaguy,

thanks for alerting me to this thread yesterday. It is Monday during peak season here, so I need to keep my response short.

- The pump changes rotation when lowering the tonneau cover, and I never see the pump moving to lower the cover in the video. Easy experiment: swap the two (identical) relays on the pump and see what happens.

- Travel sensors cannot be bypassed. The controller sends a modulated signal, and it basically reads the amount of modulated current that passes through the sensor. That current changes based on how magnetically permeable the material is around the magnet in the travel sensor. The presence or absence of a steel cylinder piston shaft makes that difference.

- Travel sensors are solid state, and quite reliable. It is rare that they fail. Most 'sensor failures' are from wires being pulled hard on the sensor itself, or from wire abrasion on the way to the controller, or from the sensor not being fully snapped into the cylinder's rail. You can swap the sensor in question with one from the main lift cylinder by cutting and splicing the wires - the sensors are identical. Polarity matters, and you can figure it out based on the color of the wires.

- Once the rear bow has reached the highest position, activated solenoids 2 and 3 on the pump are supposed to hold up the rear bow. It would be interesting to know whether two of the four solenoids on the pump are getting 12VDC while the rear bow is falling down again.

Klaus

tophydraulics.com

 

Well, I understand the sequencing a lot more now.

So the relays in the top controller are the first suspect.

By swapping them, if the behavior CHANGES, then one relay is bad. We change both relays and are done with it.

If nothing changes, the relays are good but we must then move on to voltage measurements to see what we have on the solenoids. Got it.

Thanks, sir.

 

By the looks of things, I have to remove the pump to swap relays. Is there a source for the relays? If I am taking the pump out to swap, I might as well replace. That way the relays themselves can be eliminated and I will have spares. To test for voltage I would have to leave pump out and check at the connectors. Are there fuses before the relays?

 

I like how you think: Get in there and replace both relays - costs little and saves a lot of time.

Unfortunately, I've owned three roadsters over nine years and have never got into the top pump/controller. I know they are what looks like auto-industry-standard 30 amp Single-Pole, Single-Throw relays, so these should work, but I can't say for sure:

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...iABEgKAWfD_BwE

The industry uses pretty standard stuff, in fact, the relays on the RCM cost me $2.38 each plus shipping - they are widely used relays. I suspect the relays in the Top Module are just standard 30 amp auto relays as depicted above. You can get them for around $9 each at Autozone, etc. - but I think Mouser's are higher quality - tho I may be wrong.

 

Time to get my hands dirty I guess. Will take a good look tonight for chaffed wires. Will see if I can sneak the relays out but looking at the positioning of them in pictures, I don't think so. If they are those type of relays I already have some. It's strange because my wife's new Jeep Wrangler had a no start condition. To shorten the story, it was the asd relay ( auto shut down ). It was over heating. I pulled it out and it looked melted. Opened up the relay and found very poor soldered connections. Had dealer replace relay under warranty and all ok. So I guess it is possible for them to fail.

 

The relays are in the wiring harness of the pump 5142638AA, also known as 1938000030 (sticker on the pump says A 193 800 00 30). They are high-current, 5-pin, mini relays.

 

So maybe I may be able to get at the relays without removing pump. Will check part numbers of the Chrysler relays I have at home. Will keep informed on progress.

 

My phone doesn't want to send pics at the moment. Are the relays in question the yellow ones under the pump? I have the pump out and relays out