Doesn't matter, they're not gonna listen....

 

It is an open rear, if you have more than one rubber stripe from a stand still with traction control off, you have a crossfire srt6 that I have never seen and would love to see a pic!

 

I agree that's an open rearend. But when I have taken my SRT6 out to do 1/4 mile runs on my G-tech, I alway's do a burnout (power-brake) and let the car move forward slowly, both tire's are smoking and the car back end alway's to the left (kind of sideway's). The only time my car will not spin both tire's is if I'm making a vary sharp turn and nail it. There's two clean stripe's about 12' to 15' long on the concrete outside my garage where the car was parked one day last Fall from where the wife & I had got into it, I was really pi$$ed off. I walk out the door, got in the car and just to let her know I was leaving I turned off the TC and nailed it. If it wasn't dark and raining at the moment I could go out and take a picture and post it up, you can still barly see the mark's from 2 or 3 months ago.

 

Hey, I didn't pick my crossfire up yet. .but all this open diff talk dissapointed me. I'm a little confused, because all of the videos I watched on youtube showed non-srt's spinning both tires. The burnouts weren't impressive but 2 tires did spin. I have a 73 mustang that had an open diff and it would always spin the passanger rear tire (driver weight added traction I guess), then upgraded to a trac-lok which burned out, and it now spins the passenger rear again. I never get it to spin the driver side tire! I will test this open diff theory tommorow when I get the car. by the way.. has anyone actually tried to spin both in the limited? It seems like everyone babies their cars here

 

I've had enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Open diff will not, can not, ever leave 2 black lines, spin both wheels similutaneously.
Period end of %^#%^$% story!!!!!!!!!!!! The SRT that sits in my driveway which ios completely stock will leave 2 lines for as long as I want to leave them 1foot or 100 feet.(t/c off).


With that said the SRT( I can't speak for the nor srt) can not have an open diff.

If it is not an LSD then it is a form of an LSD. Just short of ripping open my rear end(LOL), does anyone have a service manaul for the SRT not the owner's manual? If so post it on this site and we can all see the componants that make up our rearends(actually the cars rear end, my rear end is made up of solida muscle LOL)

Did you all check out the links I posted in an earlier part of this thread? Please read it and quit making DUMB statements.


Leadfoot

 

I'm sorry, leadfoot, but it is an open differential (see picture below.) Now, why does it leave two stripes? I believe those people who "blame" it on the traction control.

 

From what I understand, it is a torque-sensitive limited slip. These function as open diffs around turns and under normal operation, but under hard acceleration lock the axles. This being said, it will not do doughnuts or spin both around a corner like a locker unless the axles lock before the wheel is turned. Like leadfoot said, open diffs NEVER spin both tires at once, and often just roast one tire, not switch between the two. Please go on youtube, streetfire and myspace tv and search crossfire burnout if you think its an open diff. and like I said, I'll test it out once I get my car.

 

There are mechanical LSD's,although clutch types are more popular due to theyre ability to be rebuilt. That diagram didnt specify whether or not the differential was open. If the traction control was causing the 2 stripes, they would alternate, and never mirror each other. In other words.. 2 dark black stripes that look the same next to each other means the axles are locked. period. Can I ask where the open diff info came from? I read on chryslers site under features where it says limited slip-N/A too, but it might be some kind of mistake. Has anyone here actually left one stripe in a straight line?

 

I'm sorry, downwardspiral, but the differential is open. There are no worm gears, no clutch plate, no nothing. There's just a big empty space between the two axle drive gears, the main ring, and the mating gear between the axle drive gears.

Sorry.

 

I have uploaded photos of my rear diff. when I took it apart to add an lsd. You will not leave two even marks when the traction control is switched off, the only way
I can run autocross it without having the computer shut the throttle shut down. Mine is a 2005 SRT-6 with the 5 speed auto. The rear took me 5 hours to pull the independent rear suspension and then reinstall all of the struts and exhaust.

The Phantom Grip that I installed will leave two marks about the same length and with lots more traction take-off. The factory applies the brakes to the spinning wheel in a stock car untill the opposite wheel beaks loose then clamps that one in milliseconds, causing that harsh shutter on take-off like its jumping up and down.

I have been there and done that, the stocker is all electronic, like my ex's GT mustang. There is no posi or lsd, among other reasons than the low cost, posi rears require more skill to keep from going in circles like my 73 CHALLENGER 6 pack. In a turn the 'lsd', will drive , spin both wheels and you will go sideways unless you have drifting practice. Woody

 

Downwardspiral, I think you may not have a clear understanding of how Bosch's modern traction control works. Your reasoning makes sense with old school muscle cars and locker diffs, but things have changed in the traction control age.

The TCS monitors wheelslip as compared to steering angle 50 times per second and makes adjustments to each rear wheel brake at that rate. This means that the brakes will attempt to equal out the torque distribution to each wheel every 20 milliseconds. This is very easy to do on dry pavement with identical tires and the effect on the stripes would be seamless to the naked eye.

 

One or both wheels spinning depends on what rpm you start your burnout. If you start at a low rpm and gradually increase it will start with the passenger wheel and then lock up the driver's side and begin to spin as well. Both wheels have stayed locked thru the staging process and launch. If you don't do a burnout or at least spin the wheels until both start spinning, then at launch it's possible to spin only the one tire until the other locks up and also depends on the traction of the the track. If it's real good you with be at the 60' mark and not still spinning on the line. Unless your driving around with drag radials then it shouldn't matter, because by the time you guys put on the the intakes and pulleys you'll roast any street tire your going to put on that rim. If you are doing burnouts often, you might want to change tires from the passenger and driver side so your tires wear evenly.
Cruzinquick

 

interesting... thanks for the info

 

So, I don't keep up with the latest auto tech (I'm a computer geek, minoring in gearhead-ology). From my youth in the mid '70s, when we
talked about an open differential, we were talking about a drive line
where only one wheel was connected to the rear end, and the other spun
freely, never ever getting any power. Anytime a car had a drive line
where power could be shifted from one wheel to the other was lsd, and
when power was constant to both wheels it was a locker.

So, when I see and hear that both wheels on the SRT-6 can be powered,
it doesn't matter much to me that braking is used to equal out the traction. If the differential is open, and I by no means have the knowledge
to say one way or the other, then how can both wheels get power? If both
wheels can drive the car, then how does this not qualify as an lsd, however
it is achieved?

Coyote (the curious)

 

From what I recall from the brochures and owner's manual, there is an
"electronic" lsd equivalent. My understanding, though limited, is that this
has the ability to apply power to both wheels, through whatever gearing
and electronic acutators are used. So, what does this mean? Do both
wheels truely get power? Can they both be powered simultaneously? If
so, what does it matter whether it is a "true" lsd or not. Isn't the result
comparable?

Coyote (the ignorant)

 

Although you are correct in your understanding of what electronic LSDs are, there is no such system on the Crossfire.

The Crossfire's differential is a simple open differential. This means that it obeys two physical rules:

1. Left Wheel Torque = Right Wheel Torque
2. Maximum Torque Applied = min(Left Wheel Torque, Right Wheel Torque)

If you apply a braking force of x ft-lbs to one wheel, then the open differential will allow x/2 ft-lbs torque to the transmitted to the unbraked wheel. What this means is that the maximum torque applied to each wheel is 50% of the car's total available torque in the best case.

If you did not have a differential but instead welded the rear axles together, then each wheel would theoretically be able to transfer 100% of the car's available torque. As any old school muscle-car head knows, however, a welded rear axle means that going anywhere except in a straight line is difficult.

The strength of a limited slip or electronically locking differential is that they allow near 100% torque delivery to a single wheel while still allowing the car's rear wheels to rotate at different speeds during normal turns.

So, are they comparable? For performance driving, in my opinion, no.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........

If anyone can make sense out of the post before me please fill me in.

Let's see if we can dumb the explanation down even further.
Yes I do mean to be as condescending as that sounds.


The t/c has no effect on whether or not power is delivered to( sorry even more dumbed down- if both wheels are driving the car) both wheels.

T/c affects wheel spin or more specifically the "not spin" of a wheel. If the wheel was not receiving power it wouldn't spin.

The yaw controller attempts to keep the attitude of the vehicle in line/straight relevant to the position of the steering wheel and takes in to account lateral g-force(it is more complicated than that but I am trying to keep this simple). Yaw control does not affect if power is given to both wheels. It may however interrupt power overall or apply brakes in an effort to keep the vehicle "straight"

So you might ask, what allows power to be applied to 1 wheel, switch between both wheels, or both wheels simultaneously????????

THE REAR END!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Open differentials do not apply power to both wheels!!!!!!!!!!!!!

End of story!!!


Whether electronic or otherwise it is an LSD.


Leadfoot

 

(extra exclamation points deleted for calm enhancement)

If you insist that open differentials do not apply power to both wheels, then which wheel gets the power?

 

This whole traction control switching between the wheels seems alot more compicated then just putting a damn lsd in the car.. Why would chrysler/mercedes/bosch do this? Do other cars have this as well?

 

YES, my ex's Mustang Gt for example. The traction contol is not LSD and as a result only one tire is pushing in a turn so BOTH REAR tires DONT BREAK TRACTION AT THE SAME TIME.

This way my mom can drive in the wet without going into a 360 spin in the rain. Believe it that posi will put you 180 degrees or more before you know it, because of this factor. This limits the car companys exposure and liability for low skill factor drivers and high power cars.