phantom grip website has graphs showing the difference in 1/4 mile times and cornering loads shootupwards for improved handling.

 

Hudoo,

No, removing the fuses doesn't completely kill it. I believe the only way to completely kill it is to remove or disconnect the yaw sensor beneath the center console.

SQ

 

No you disconnect the hot lead coming out of the small plastic break out box, its near the big ECU box on passengers side. I don't know why you need to pull the fuses or disconnect the ABS,TC system when I turn off the TC from inside the car, I can do donuts and take corners hard without having the stability system cut in... what's the deal am I missing something?

 

As far as the Yaw control - search for 'dirty donuts' posted by user name Woody.

And, if you try to do a donut in my car, with the traction on, off, OR fuses pulled out - you'll be trying for a LONG time. It wont do it.

SQ

 

Back to the subject, it's an open diff. per the factory specs.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential2.htm

 

What is your definition of a doughnut, just going in a big circle with one tire spinning or the front end of the car basiclly staying in about the same place and the back end sliding around in a small circle with both tire's putting down rubber?

 

Turn off the traction control and see one tire. I added the lsd from phantom grip and the computer does not cut the throttle of hit the brakes now. Ps you want to get the sprint booster it is really a simple IMPROVEMENT in the throttlw response. Woody

 

Can you clarify? I cant make sense of the way your paragraph is written...sorry

 

there is an older E class diesle station wagon from the 90's that might fit. it's a full locking rear diff, and unlocks at 15-20mph. the gear ration is kinda high for us, unless you like having a 200mph top speed, lol

 

Traction control would not produce 2 uninterrupted black tire marks on the ground. What you would see if the traction control was the LSD would be a black stripe on one side then the other. If the TCS applies the brake to the spinning wheel then switched power to the other wheel you would have the effect I just described. There is also a third type of rear end called locked. In this rear end the read differential does not have friction plates and both sides of the axles act incongruence. Meaning 1 turns the other turns. I have a locked rear end on 2 of my mustangs. This is excellent for dragging and not so good as a daily driver but it can be driven daily. As mentioned in another post of this thread the name given to the limited slip is brand specific but is in effect the same idea. There is also called a open differential which is the true 1 legged wonder. Only 1 and only 1 wheel will spin and it will always be on the same side. My truck(God knows why) has this and it is completely idiotic for a ruck to have this.

The stock rear end in an srt 6 is differnat from the non srt6. we have a true limited slip and not an electronic. Hence the 2 black stripes as stated in another post. The TC'S and yaw(ESP) apply brakes to spinning wheels to obtain better traction and to maintain the point if direction relative to g force. Steering wheel is turned to make a certain corner and the lateral g's produced with the orientation of the vehicle is how yaw and TCs calculate whether or not braking is needed.


Example: Turn a corner quickly and the back end slides out. The change in direction of the steering wheel, the changes in direction of the g's informs the TCS that the vehicle is "sliding" sideways and in what direction. The TCS applies the brakes in an attempt to straighten the vehicle out to a direction it was previously heading. If you go quickly enough the yaw sensor and TCS can not react quickly as to stop the slide. I have done 360's (donuts) with the TCS off. Therefore the yaw control obviously did not compensate for the change in the direction of the g's.




Leadfoot

 

well it sounds like you have one that either someone has put a mechanical LSD into, or for one reason or another came with it-when I had my SRT-6 on the lift, and in PARK, you can rotate one tire clockwise, and watch the other tire go counter clockwise...my car has done this since it had 900 miles on it, so I'm sure it is not because a mechanical LSD is worn out etc...the rear end in my car is wide open and utilizes the electronics to mandate wheel spin...I also have on video autocrossing my car and you can distinctly see the inside tire spinning easily for a moment before the electronics clamp it down and allow the outside tire to take power, or the computer cuts engine power. I have discovered that it is a delicate line between going fast on the edge of traction and loosing because of the electronic nannies!

 

I am not disagreeing with you that the TCS or YAW applies the brakes during wheel spin or sliding. The differential is irrelevant to the the TCS. You stated that the wheels turn counter to each other. That is Limited Slip Differential. Open differential only 1 wheel would turn. Locked both would turn in the same direction at the same rpm. The TCS controls wheel spin not the relationship from wide side to the other. Wheel spin relevant to the TCS is relevant to any tire spinning.

with a LSD 1 wheel will spin then switch to the other side. In this case with TCS the car sense the left rear tire spinning and applies the brake. In the meantime the drive has already been switched to the other wheel. Think of it as having both limited slip and TCS.


Leadfoot

 

With the vehicle on a lift in 'Park' or gear, (so the Driveshaft can not rotate) an open differential will cause the tires to rotate opposite directions, if it has a mechanical LSD, and it is in Park or gear, you will not be able to rotate either tire by hand without considerable effort(to overcome the clutches or springpacks, depending what manufacture of LSD it is)...with the same LSD equipped vehicle in Neutral, both wheels will then rotate in the same direction if turned by hand...

 

My SRT6 has never just broke one tire loose with the TC off, it has alway's broke both tire's loose till it started getting really sideways, then one would quit spinning.

 

I do not understand why this subject keeps coming up and why people are constantly arguing despite all the proof that has been posted.

Please note: THE CROSSFIRE INCLUDING THE SRT6 DOES NOT HAVE AN LSD FROM THE FACTORY. PERIOD.

 

Correct!!!

If you are leaving 2 black marks or both tires are spinning simultaneously with TCS off then the car has an LSD. When you get sideways then the vehicle compensates, that is the yaw controller.

If our cars had an open differential you would NEVER leave 2 black marks and both tires would never spin at the same time. Period!!!!!

I have been racing for 22 years. I have built 3 vehicles form the frame up. I have rebuilt, swapped out, modified enough rear ends in addition to the 3 cars I have built to know what the Hell I am talking about.

Did you know you can convert a LSD to a locked rear end without buying a single part?


Probably not!!!

If the vehicle had an open diff with TCS one wheel would spin and the TCS would apply the brake to that 1 wheel. It would never switch to the other wheel!!!

In addition the TCS only applies the brake when the rotational speed of one wheel exceeds a preset % relevant to the other wheels. This preset is adjusted only by rewriting the code or selecting the "W" on the console. Switching to the winter mode. Read your owner's manual.


Please check out the link it describes all the different types of differentials. Obviously if we had an open 1 wheel would spin free. Hence If you sit there and bake the tire with one wheel spinning you would not move forward. With LSD you would move forward, and with locked both rear wheels would spin at the same rpm regardless if 1 tire is on ice and attempting to spin.



Leadfoot

 

SRT6_Roadster is absolutely correct-our cars do NOT have a mechanical LSD from the factory-the rear end is OPEN-When you have an OPEN rear end, and power is being supplied via the driveshaft, and only one wheel is spinning, if you STOP that wheel from spinning, the power is going to be transferred through the spider gear cluster (the little collection of gears INSIDE the ring/pinion that you would WELD UP if you wanted a 'RED-NECK' LOCKER) and spin the other side-Not to argue with your 22 years of racing and building cars, but Chrysler has been using the computer braking system in place of a mechanical LSD on a variety of cars...in fact the new Caliber SRT-4 uses that same technology to give it 'Limited Slip characteristics' without having a mechanical LSD-in its front wheel drive application...it is rare but not uncommon for an occasional 2 stripe burn out from a car with an open differential...if both surfaces are equally tractionless, then both tires will spin-until one gets less traction and spins faster (path of least resistance). Furthermore, when only one tire is spinning in an open rear end, the rotational speed of that tire is DOUBLED because the input driveshaft speed (RPMs) is not being split in half between both sides...that is why a one leg burnout will provide immediate smoke...the tire is spinning at TWICE the readout of your speedo...gotta keep that in mind when the teenager in the neighborhood does a 1 leg burnout around the corner!! Pretty good chance that spinning tire just approached 100mph under an extreme load!!

So back to the topic...if the electronic nannies were not applying the brakes to compensate for traction, and both wheels were applying power down to the ground MECHANICALLY, the car should be quicker because it will not have the parasitic drag of the brakes being applied when one tire looses traction...?

 

Well then we are in agreement!

I never stated that the LSD in the crossfire was mechanical. I stated that it wasn't an open diff. In your own post you elude to the fact "LSD like diff" Whether the diff is mechanical or electronic it is not an open diff. I have a 98 ram with an open diff. It does a one legged wonder around corners. The SRT (or limited) would not and does not do this. Even with TCS off my car will continue to spin both wheels.

So we are in agreement in large part, just a difference in definition.

By the way here is the link:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential2.htm


leadfoot

 

I also agree a mechanical diff would be quicker for the reason you stated. A locked rear end would be the quickest. In this manner torque is applied evenly to both wheels regardless of traction.


leadfoot


drive hard, play hard, shift softly

 

Just to settle some disputes here, the Crossfire does have an open differential...