doesnt the ECU have to work out g/sec Air so it can work out g/sec fuel to an AFR of ....whatever the map is programmed for...?
If so how does it work it out...it only has a MAP and an MAT...but no flow - so I'm guessing it assumes a flow rate through the SC of XXXX grams/sec and corrects for P and T?

 

You can look under the hood all you want but it's still not really a cold air intake because the filter boxes heat soak and that's where the filter located and the air will be hotter. In this case most of the factory intakes are 'cold air' because a good majority route to the upper grille. RSX-S for example gains over 15whp from a CAI over a stock airbox (which routes to the front grille) and a short ram doesn't add any power because it heat soaks even though the flow might be better. Also note that some ECUs do adjust automatically for lower IAT, RSX-S has a factory wide-band 02 sensor and that's why it gains so much power from a lower IAT. Same concept applies to many other cars. For a CAI to provide a better flow, there needs to be a vacuum created in the stock intake system and I can assure you this is not the case with our 'massive' 3.2L V6 and dual intakes. Evo's can run stock airboxes upwards of 400whp with no issues with a single inlet intake that's designed like *** so let's not talk about better flow or reduced flow from a factory system. From your argument we can then say that we can all do the 'code 3' DIY mod and the gains will be identical to any CAI if not better since the flow won't really get much better than an opening right next to TB and IAT doesn't matter.

 

I applaud your basic knowledge of intake systems, but not sure what your point is, perhaps you just like to argue. The facts and concepts that you are expounding on here have been discussed on this Forum countless times, w/ dynographs, flowbench results, test and tune results,1/4mile data,charts, etc.,etc. Quite frankly, you are preaching to the choir(especially Steve), and late to the party.

 

i wasnt aware that filters COOLED anything. i was always under the impression they FILTERED THE DIRT PARTICLES FROM THE AIR. but i guess i was wrong. the air is being brought in from the outside which is the definition of a cold air intake. thats oem . but then again with your wealth of knowledge on evos im sure it all applies directly to a german built car.
look at guarens car. he cut a hole in the hood and put a 90* elbow right to a cone filter. took the c3 to a new level. holds the record for the fastest 3.2 s/c engine non nitrous. i guess he should listen to you for advice

 

Whoa whoa whoa, cut a hole in the hood and took c3 to the new level.. but I you just said:

But just maybe he was sucking in so much air with the c3 that he created a giant vacuum (or maybe even a black hole lol) under the hood so he needed to cut a hole to get some 'better flow'. I guess he should have read some of your wise info about the irrelevance of IAT and saved his hood .

 

That's why Nascar does it too. It looks bad azzz. Cool air is better. More flow is better. Ice tanks work even if they're a pain. Evos have small tubes (you said it, not me). Got to go to work now, to be continued.

Les

 

I was thinking the same thing. "What does any of this have to do with the thread?" This discussion would definitely fit better in an Acura RSX forum.

 

By competitive bracket racing standards those runs are horribly inconsistent. The spread on the 60' times was .048 which is terrible for me. MY 1/4 mile ETs should be within .048, not my 60's. On the last run I had to completely lift out of of the throttle between the 60 and 330 to regain traction, and then get back into it.

I am far from the only person running an ice tank on a supercharged car at the drag strip. I've seen a number of the supercharged Mustang and Mercedes Benz guys with ice tanks.

They do sell ice at the drag strip. "lol"

 

This is what a consistent day of launches looks like for me:

1.95, 1.96, 1.96, 1.95

60s.jpg

Those 1/4 miles ETs are what drive me nuts though.

12.97, 12.95, 12.93...

OK, so I was thinking she's running fairly consistent, but picking up as the evening goes on and the temp drops So I dial in a 12.91 thinking I should be right on the money, and BAM! out of nowhere she runs a 12.87. WTF?!

If a tuner can tell me what causes that inconsistency and guarantee me that they can fix it, they will get to tune my car before next season.


Hmmm, maybe I am getting the thread off topic now too... Sorry.

 

Regardless of your 60', lifting off, any other factors in the beginning of the 1/4 mile, you would have had a better trap speed if the ice tank actually served any benefit. Trap speed tells a much better story about whp as e.t.s do vary but the trap speeds stay very close.. People who are interested in seeing how the engine related mods perform look at the trap speed, plus with our automatics there is no way you can screw anything toward the end of the 1/4 that would effect the trap speed.

Some basic math:
HP for another mph above "X" speed: = Wt * (((X+1)^3-X^3) / (228.4^3))

In your case, it seems like a good run would give you a 109mph trap in the quarter (obviously that day has already passed so you would need a new baseline to see what the trap is without the ice box), to see how many additional ponies you would need to trap at 110mph with a car that weighs around 3440lbs (3220lbs net weight + your weight + gas), a few + or - pounds won't make a difference.

HP delta = 3440 * ((110^3-109^3) / 228.4^3))

HP delta = 10.4 HP

Once you're going 109 in the quarter, it would take an additional 10.4 HP to go 110 mph in the 3440 lb car.

This of course assumes exact track conditions so the runs would be performed the same day. So if your ice box had any real benefit, we would see a trap speed of at least 2+ mph over the baseline. Obviously it has no affect because your temp readings indicate a very drastic lowering of IAT, such lowering of temps on other cars with a CAI would result in horsepower. In your case there are absolutely no gains and no point to this project, Mustang guys use ice boxes for safety while running insane amounts of boost and they don't want to buy a new supercharger every oil change, obviously it's not a concern at all on our cars.

 

EVERYTHING affects ET AND trap speed. Experienced racers know this. Staging, stall RPM, tire pressure, tail wind, lane choice, and so much more. That doesn't mean it affects them the same.


Every first-timer at the track knows this rule of thumb.



Now we have all been educated. Regarding IAT: "obviously it's not a concern at all on our cars"


xman03, you bought your SRT6 last month, right? It's not relevant, I was just curious. Have you made many 1/4 mile passes on it yet?

I've made over 200 on mine in the last two years. I guess that's not relevant either. Nevermind.

 

Deleted by me.

 

Wow, the forum has gained a Mr Know-it-all. Maybe you can get to the track and back up your mouth, or should I say your fingers. That is unless you're a keyboard racer.

 

I'm thinking about deleting my prior post also. At least the last part. Do you think I should? You can't win when someone is just looking for an argument online, no matter how many data logs you post.

 

I'd leave it.

Are you the one that bracket races the XF every week?

 

That's me! It's an "imitation" XF though (SLK32 AMG).

I finished 2nd place overall in the Sport Compact class again in 2012 which is actually very frustrating. I WANT ONE OF THOSE BIG CLASS CHAMPION TROPHIES! 2013 will be my year.

I was SOOO close too... Chris Chase and I actually tied in season points, and he won by the tie-breaker rule which was the racer with the most 1st place finishes. Just ONE MORE round win anytime during the season would have done it.... SIGH

Your times are VERY impressive Grip! My goal is to run high 11s too. I am hoping to get there with this 62mm pulley, but I've read the threads in your sig, so I fear I might need to get a bigger fuel pump, at the least.

 

Nice way to represent the 3.2 AMG! Damn, so close. Hopefully next year. I love surprising people with what these cars are capable of.

By the way, how's your traction during the 60'? The 1.95's are very consistent, which leads me to believe traction is not an issue and that the 1.9's are a reflection of the car's ability. If you install the 62 you'll likely need dedicated tires if you want to be competitive. Just food for thought. You'll be quicker, but maybe less consistent due to tire dependency. Shoot me a PM if you have belt slip and I'll hook you up with a cheap solution.

I'm pretty happy with the 11.7's. I'm hoping to trim them down to 11.6's before the season's over, but I'm not overly optimistic. Unfortunately I broke an engine mount my last time at the track, so this may cause issues tomorrow. I'm temporarily securing the engine tonight with Woody's mod (cable and ties). Hopefully this will do the trick for now.

As I'm sure you're already aware, if you feel it missing at the top 3rd or 4th you're probably running lean. This is obvious when your trap is down after mods. I gapped the plugs to .036 and don't seem to have any issues with blow out at over 22psi, so I wouldn't go overboard and gap them down more than that. But that's your call.

 

Thanks!

You are quite right. On summer days my launches are limited by power, not traction. Steve (32crazy!) has a hard time believing this, but I can stab the throttle straight to the floor and leave the line with no wheelspin.

I do have 16" Mickey Thompson ET Street Radials
Also, a Wavetrace LSD, and Mike R (RIP, still can't believe it) camber arms at 0.5 degrees negative camber.

Steve tried to convince me that I should aim for more power, or more consistency, but not both. He's right. But I want both, so that's what I'm stubbornly trying for.

I want to cable down the motor to prevent breaking engine mounts too. Post pics of your permanent solution if you do that!

 

IAT's do make a difference. However, since most of us operate at elevated temperatures (inadequate intercooler) we don't see much difference from 10º. But I'm in the camp of every degree lower is better so I'm all for an ice tank for the 1/4 or 1/2 mile. I know a guy that bracket races his Magnum (I know, apples to oranges) and he monitors IAT's like no one I know. He strives to leave the line at the same temperature, engine and IAT, and he wins everything. Extremely consistent. If it didn't matter he wouldn't do it and win. I haven't used ice, I use meth. The heat generated must be incredible because my meth doesn't help my IAT's. A better I/C is really what we need. But in the mean time, every degree counts. Ice tanks work and with a better intercooler they would work even better. All you need is a friend with a pickup to bring lots of ice.

Les

 

If you read my post I did state that the baseline for the passes would need to be the same day in the same conditions and the driver would do everything in a similar fashion each launch. We are talking about a relatively slow car here with an AUTOMATIC, it doesn't take a genius to run consistent passes in this car. Let's see.. hold the brake, stall to 1.5k, release the brake and floor it, now that's really complicated. No picking at which rpm you should launch at and holding it exactly there before the launch, no slipping the clutch or feathering the gas pedal as you take off, no shifting right before the rev limiter while possibly shifting flat or giving it a certain amount of gas so you don't spin out banging it from first to second or even second to third. A manual takes way more skill and finesse. The only thing that might slightly change in each run is the 60' foot time which will have no impact on the trap speed. I've made over a 100 passes on cars way faster than an SRT, mostly an 03' 550whp Cobra (manual obviously) and a 680whp Supra (auto). I could run an 11.3 or an 11.9 in the Cobra and have an identical trap speed over and over again; same trap speed with different drivers even.. ET's of course did vary. Supra ran same trap speed over and over again while consistently hitting high 10's every pass on drag radials, not slicks. It spun like crazy and 60' did vary, not as much as the Cobra of course. A 300whp - 360whp SRT will run consistent trap speeds on the same day, the car does everything for you.. why do you think most people who are good at bracket racing have automatics. I'm glad you did 200 passes in your car, you are now a real expert in running an automatic car in a straight line.