BIG trunk-mount Intercooler ICE TANKS
Re: BIG trunk-mount Intercooler ICE TANKS
If you read my post I did state that the baseline for the passes would need to be the same day in the same conditions and the driver would do everything in a similar fashion each launch. We are talking about a relatively slow car here with an AUTOMATIC, it doesn't take a genius to run consistent passes in this car. Let's see.. hold the brake, stall to 1.5k, release the brake and floor it, now that's really complicated. No picking at which rpm you should launch at and holding it exactly there before the launch, no slipping the clutch or feathering the gas pedal as you take off, no shifting right before the rev limiter while possibly shifting flat or giving it a certain amount of gas so you don't spin out banging it from first to second or even second to third. A manual takes way more skill and finesse. The only thing that might slightly change in each run is the 60' foot time which will have no impact on the trap speed. I've made over a 100 passes on cars way faster than an SRT, mostly an 03' 550whp Cobra (manual obviously) and a 680whp Supra (auto). I could run an 11.3 or an 11.9 in the Cobra and have an identical trap speed over and over again; same trap speed with different drivers even.. ET's of course did vary. Supra ran same trap speed over and over again while consistently hitting high 10's every pass on drag radials, not slicks. It spun like crazy and 60' did vary, not as much as the Cobra of course. A 300whp - 360whp SRT will run consistent trap speeds on the same day, the car does everything for you.. why do you think most people who are good at bracket racing have automatics. I'm glad you did 200 passes in your car, you are now a real expert in running an automatic car in a straight line. 
Re: BIG trunk-mount Intercooler ICE TANKS
You sir are an arrogant, condescending know-nothing. Run your car, not your mouth. Please go back to your ricer forums, they're missing their forum fool.
Re: BIG trunk-mount Intercooler ICE TANKS
Okay no response see if this helps... it does have an IC ... (Inside Console)..
Last edited by Mrmiata; 11-02-2012 at 04:30 PM.
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Re: BIG trunk-mount Intercooler ICE TANKS
IAT's do make a difference. However, since most of us operate at elevated temperatures (inadequate intercooler) we don't see much difference from 10º. But I'm in the camp of every degree lower is better so I'm all for an ice tank for the 1/4 or 1/2 mile. I know a guy that bracket races his Magnum (I know, apples to oranges) and he monitors IAT's like no one I know. He strives to leave the line at the same temperature, engine and IAT, and he wins everything. Extremely consistent. If it didn't matter he wouldn't do it and win. I haven't used ice, I use meth. The heat generated must be incredible because my meth doesn't help my IAT's. A better I/C is really what we need. But in the mean time, every degree counts. Ice tanks work and with a better intercooler they would work even better. All you need is a friend with a pickup to bring lots of ice.
Les
Les
Waldig is exploring our options with the intercooler. I think we are all watching those threads with interest too!
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Re: BIG trunk-mount Intercooler ICE TANKS
Below is the least scientific comparison imaginable. But it is what I have.
Series:
Parallel:
And just for fun, with both heat exchangers bypassed:
The battery was a little run down for all 3 videos. I put a charger on it at 13.5 volts and the water flow rate picked up noticeably.
It is too cold to know at this time how it will affect the intake air cooling.
Re: BIG trunk-mount Intercooler ICE TANKS
Ran across this while doing some research, thought it may be of interest, FYI. W
dy
Water to Air Ice Box Reservoir
99$
dyWater to Air Ice Box Reservoir
99$
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Re: BIG trunk-mount Intercooler ICE TANKS
FINAL ICE TANK RESULTS
I will get right to the results: Adding ice to my reservoir tank is good for a 0.3 second improvement in the ¼ mile and an intake air temp reduction of 60 degrees F. vs running straight water.
On 6/7/13 I ran the ¼ mile at MCIR with ice in the tank for every run. My best run was a 12.28 @ 112.5. My runs varied between 12.28 – 12.57. At the start of the runs IATs were 48-50. At the end of the runs IATs were 74-91.
Two days prior on 6/5/13 I ran at NTR without any ice. My best run was 12.58 @ 111.3. My runs varied between 12.58 and 12.80. At the start of the runs IATs were 106-116. At the end of the runs IATs were 136-149.
The density altitude was lower on 6/7 than it was on 6/5. Looking back through previous runs this year, 5/8/13 had similar DA to 6/7/13. I was running on 5/8 without ice. My best run was 12.53 @111.2. My runs varied from 12.53 to 12.79.
The 7 gallon trunk tank hold 30 lbs of ice plus water. 30 lbs of ice lasts for 3 1/4 mile passes.
Mods:
I will get right to the results: Adding ice to my reservoir tank is good for a 0.3 second improvement in the ¼ mile and an intake air temp reduction of 60 degrees F. vs running straight water.
On 6/7/13 I ran the ¼ mile at MCIR with ice in the tank for every run. My best run was a 12.28 @ 112.5. My runs varied between 12.28 – 12.57. At the start of the runs IATs were 48-50. At the end of the runs IATs were 74-91.
Two days prior on 6/5/13 I ran at NTR without any ice. My best run was 12.58 @ 111.3. My runs varied between 12.58 and 12.80. At the start of the runs IATs were 106-116. At the end of the runs IATs were 136-149.
The density altitude was lower on 6/7 than it was on 6/5. Looking back through previous runs this year, 5/8/13 had similar DA to 6/7/13. I was running on 5/8 without ice. My best run was 12.53 @111.2. My runs varied from 12.53 to 12.79.
The 7 gallon trunk tank hold 30 lbs of ice plus water. 30 lbs of ice lasts for 3 1/4 mile passes.
Mods:
- 62mm pulley. Boost is 18 psi max.
- Dual, parallel, OEM front heat exchangers
- Isolated cooling systems
- Insulated intercooler
- 100% water in IC circuit
- 7 gallon ice tank/water reservoir in trunk
- Dual, series, Johnson CM30 IC pumps. One pump drawing from trunk tank, pushing water to pump in OEM location.
- 3-way valve to bypass front heat exchangers when running ice water (not sure this is necessary)
Last edited by boostmonkey; 08-11-2013 at 09:43 AM.
Re: BIG trunk-mount Intercooler ICE TANKS
FINAL ICE TANK RESULTS
Mods:
Mods:
- 62mm pulley. Boost is 18 psi max.
- Dual, parallel, OEM front heat exchangers
- Isolated cooling systems
- Insulated intercooler
- 100% water in IC circuit
- 7 gallon ice tank/water reservoir in trunk
- Dual, series, Johnson CM30 IC pumps. One pump drawing from trunk tank, pushing water to pump in OEM location.
- 3-way valve to bypass front heat exchangers when running ice water (not sure this is necessary)
18psi at what IAT? chilled or unchilled? Do you notice a difference in psi with ice? lower/higher?
3-way valve
- useful if your water temp entering your front HX is cooler than ambient. Are u implying this is not often the case?30lbs of ice!...jeesh!
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Re: BIG trunk-mount Intercooler ICE TANKS
I have not noticed any difference in boost pressure with or without ice cooling.
You are exactly right about the 3-way valve. It would be better to bypass the front heat exchangers if the water temp exiting the intercooler is lower than ambient. I DON'T KNOW if that is the case or not. I suspect it may be, but I don't have the equipment to measure/log it.
You are exactly right about the 3-way valve. It would be better to bypass the front heat exchangers if the water temp exiting the intercooler is lower than ambient. I DON'T KNOW if that is the case or not. I suspect it may be, but I don't have the equipment to measure/log it.
Re: BIG trunk-mount Intercooler ICE TANKS
Hats off to you for setting this system up.....
Yes - what is needed are a couple of standard water RTD's input into a controller circuit with a couple of relays/solenoid valve/s.
Valve - I actually looked at similar ones to the ones used for the dual cabin heater but havent been able to find anything under $200+freight. They have a single water input and dual water outputs and are obviously made for the job and the environment/liquids. Not sure on the amount of flow restriction tho = reduction in flow.
RTD's - One RTD for ambient air temp and the other RTD in the tube for water ex the IC (well pre HX rather)....oh...and a bypass tube back to the pump (the 2nd RTD would need to be before this).
I've just finished an OBDII data logger I've been working on for the past few months. It has additional Digital and Analogue Inputs & Outputs, but who knows if it will ever get to strike a blow in anger at my current pace!
To be easy on myself I have managed to bench the RTD's and an inline pulse flow meter....but that's it at this stage.
Yes - what is needed are a couple of standard water RTD's input into a controller circuit with a couple of relays/solenoid valve/s.
Valve - I actually looked at similar ones to the ones used for the dual cabin heater but havent been able to find anything under $200+freight. They have a single water input and dual water outputs and are obviously made for the job and the environment/liquids. Not sure on the amount of flow restriction tho = reduction in flow.
RTD's - One RTD for ambient air temp and the other RTD in the tube for water ex the IC (well pre HX rather)....oh...and a bypass tube back to the pump (the 2nd RTD would need to be before this).
I've just finished an OBDII data logger I've been working on for the past few months. It has additional Digital and Analogue Inputs & Outputs, but who knows if it will ever get to strike a blow in anger at my current pace!
To be easy on myself I have managed to bench the RTD's and an inline pulse flow meter....but that's it at this stage.
Re: BIG trunk-mount Intercooler ICE TANKS
Reading with interest, not the fool who thinks having the ability to dump a clutch, launch, and shift have some greatness to it, but back to the subject. I know what and how I will install the meth setup. IT will be a little different than most. But, I have to have shoulder surgery, so I have been working a lot of overtime getting ready for at least 2 months of off duty...no driving the rig, time. I think I am going to relocate my little battery to the trunk and use the area where the battery is for my tank and pump. I am using dual nozzles on this mod, and will relocate my AIT sensor up to the manifold on the drivers side, as I am injecting into each tube thru the bungs installed on each tube. Sorry, but this will be a winter project. I just don't have the time nor will I have my right arm for awhile....I always liked the ice tank in the trunk mods. Jake, at EC runs a big one is his trunk, and it seems to do a good job for him.
I about forgot to mention seeing your times you all have run so far. I don't know how the elevations compare to where I live in Central Indiana, but the roadster time posted, which are old btw, and were done with summer compound street tires. No limited slip at the time, just a dual CAI, 65mm pulley, and tune. I have since added to the roadster the mani's, wavetrac, psk, and a few other small mods like a new tune. She is a lot quicker now. But hasn't had any track time. I have never concentrated on any cooling to date, as I don't see this as the big problem getting into the 11's. It might be for multiple runs, but that just doesn't happen racing around here as you have time to ice her down. Still, if something looks simple and easy enough, I would try it.
I about forgot to mention seeing your times you all have run so far. I don't know how the elevations compare to where I live in Central Indiana, but the roadster time posted, which are old btw, and were done with summer compound street tires. No limited slip at the time, just a dual CAI, 65mm pulley, and tune. I have since added to the roadster the mani's, wavetrac, psk, and a few other small mods like a new tune. She is a lot quicker now. But hasn't had any track time. I have never concentrated on any cooling to date, as I don't see this as the big problem getting into the 11's. It might be for multiple runs, but that just doesn't happen racing around here as you have time to ice her down. Still, if something looks simple and easy enough, I would try it.
Last edited by oledoc2u; 08-19-2013 at 09:09 PM.
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Re: BIG trunk-mount Intercooler ICE TANKS
Try running with a block of dry ice to cool the water more (from the outside) and maybe need to use less water/weight.... Much lighter, much colder. Report on results. But, wear gloves of course or you will have no fingerprints left and you won't be able to feel the steering wheel. Lots of drug stores and some places like mini-Costco's (Smart and Final markets, if you have them) sell dry ice near the regular ice section.
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Re: BIG trunk-mount Intercooler ICE TANKS
If I get a hold of some dry ice I will let you know how it compares.
Re: BIG trunk-mount Intercooler ICE TANKS
I dont think dry Ice will work with straight water in the tank....the water will freeze at 0degC. Dry ice is -80C.
As long as the water touching your coil is liquid (must be) you are still only getting the 0 degC dT component to the cooling coil. If you have CO2 gas in contact with your coil - transfer will be worse me thinks - heat transfer through gases is much lower than liquids.
You could however add glycol to improve the situation, but it may still also freeze in part....worth a try I guess.
Beware of the asphixiation risks of CO2 as well.
Make sure the tank is vented to equalise pressure - should already be I'm guessing
I havent calculated the "energy density" of dry ice yet - but there may be a gain in this respect. Its denser and much colder.
Higher (or is it lower...;>) energy density means your ice would last longer per pound of ice.
PS - the heat of sublimation of CO2 (570J/g) is better than the heat of melting for water from solid (330J/g),
... but..... you gotta add the heating of the ice from whatever it was (-20C?) to zero which would be 2J/g x 20C = 330+40 = 370J/g versus 570J/g for dry ice turning into a gas. So you're still ahead.
As long as the water touching your coil is liquid (must be) you are still only getting the 0 degC dT component to the cooling coil. If you have CO2 gas in contact with your coil - transfer will be worse me thinks - heat transfer through gases is much lower than liquids.
You could however add glycol to improve the situation, but it may still also freeze in part....worth a try I guess.
Beware of the asphixiation risks of CO2 as well.
Make sure the tank is vented to equalise pressure - should already be I'm guessing
I havent calculated the "energy density" of dry ice yet - but there may be a gain in this respect. Its denser and much colder.
Higher (or is it lower...;>) energy density means your ice would last longer per pound of ice.
PS - the heat of sublimation of CO2 (570J/g) is better than the heat of melting for water from solid (330J/g),
... but..... you gotta add the heating of the ice from whatever it was (-20C?) to zero which would be 2J/g x 20C = 330+40 = 370J/g versus 570J/g for dry ice turning into a gas. So you're still ahead.
Last edited by Billy22Bob; 08-27-2013 at 06:42 PM.
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Re: BIG trunk-mount Intercooler ICE TANKS
I think I am going to relocate my little battery to the trunk and use the area where the battery is for my tank and pump. I am using dual nozzles on this mod, and will relocate my AIT sensor up to the manifold on the drivers side, as I am injecting into each tube thru the bungs installed on each tube. Sorry, but this will be a winter project. I just don't have the time nor will I have my right arm for awhile...
If you relocate the battery to the trunk, you MUST have a rear externally mounted battery cutoff switch per NHRA rules. That is the reason I did not relocate. Some tracks may let you get away with it; mine won't.
I always liked the ice tank in the trunk mods. Jake, at EC runs a big one is his trunk, and it seems to do a good job for him.
I about forgot to mention seeing your times you all have run so far.
Re: BIG trunk-mount Intercooler ICE TANKS
Dry Ice has 246 BTU's per pound when it sublimes.
Ice has 144 BTU's per pound when melted to 32 degree water - and still absorbs more heat at the water warms, 1 BTU per degree per pound.
If you u used dry ice, you would want alcohol to be a intermediate between the IC water and dry ice, too costly and difficult for my thinking. Woody, Enjoy
Ice has 144 BTU's per pound when melted to 32 degree water - and still absorbs more heat at the water warms, 1 BTU per degree per pound.
If you u used dry ice, you would want alcohol to be a intermediate between the IC water and dry ice, too costly and difficult for my thinking. Woody, Enjoy
Re: BIG trunk-mount Intercooler ICE TANKS
yes - not so sure on this - it would be worth a try to see if the dry ice freezes the water+glycol....I've never seen it happen - Ive always noted the DIce just bubbles away on top with the spooky smoke effect - not actually freezing the water.
I guess in a confined space...different story - but on a dish/benchtop...burble...burble...toil and trurble...
I guess in a confined space...different story - but on a dish/benchtop...burble...burble...toil and trurble...