Decided to put princess on a diet and install a lithium battery . I have been installing large lithium packs in gem cars for about 3 years and have learned a lot about different types of lithium and their characteristics . The lithium cells we use in Gem cars are Lithium manganese (LMO) same chemistry as Nissan leaf , chevy volt , bmw , etc. They work well in these applications but they don't like heat and started losing range after a year in hot climates . So I started researching a better chemistry and found Lithium Titanate (LTO), this is stuff is incredible ! These will run circles around any other lithium .

Here is some info on them :

A lithium–titanate battery is a modified lithium-ion battery that uses lithium-titanate nanocrystals on the surface of its anode instead of carbon. This gives the anode a surface area of about 100 square meters per gram, compared with 3 square meters per gram for carbon, allowing electrons to enter and leave the anode quickly. This makes fast recharging possible and provides high currents when needed. (from wikipedia)

these cells can be charged/discharged at 7c with short runs over 10c . Battery can be charged to 90% in less then 10 min.

They perform very well at low temperatures and extreme temperature tolerance from -22 degrees f to +131 degrees Fahrenheit . Most other lithium's well either not perform or quickly degrade if operated in these temperatures .

They are very stable and considered one of , if not the , safest of all lithium's . we have test data showing them charged to TWICE their normal voltages with no thermal runaway , and they continued to function properly .

25+ year shelf life

20,000+ life cycles (charged and discharged twice a day would be 27 years!)

LTO can be stored at 0 volts . ( there is a test online were they stored them over one year at zero volts and after 1 year there was no lose of capacity ) so if you have an application were there is a deep discharge or storage without the ability to keep on a charger these will work great. Other lithium's will be permanently ruined if they were to go below there minimum voltages .

The only problem is that they're not available to the public and if you could buy them they are EXTREMELY expensive . But we got lucky. Altairnano wanted to sell some old stock they had (sizes they are no longer selling) so we bought all of it (about 12 pallets of them, mostly the larger 55ah cells , but 2 pallets of the smaller 11ah cells).

I've really wanted to build one for my crossfire and finally got a chance . It takes 6 cells in series to get the proper voltage and decided to double up on them for more capacity (12 total 2p6s)

the stock battery weights 41lbs , this one weighs 10lbs
stock battery has 680cca's this one approximately 1200 cca's
stock battery life span 4 years ? This one 20+

 

Are we to assume that with all those pallets, you are going to offer them for sale to forum members ?
( along with a kit to hook them all together and to the car )

 

The cells are listed on ebay (don't need thousands of them!) . But if a forum member wants them i can sell them directly and make a kit up , sure.

 

i didn't have all the parts i needed on hand so used some terminals and wire that i had to start .

one of the other advantages is lto doesn't fall back when charging stops . With a lead battery the voltage is at 14.0v when the car is running but as soon as you turn the car off the voltage drops down to 12.8v or so . This one stays @ 13.9v so the car turns over a little faster.

 

This is QUITE interesting! One question I would have is would this battery be subject to a runaway charging situation? Another question, will the under-hood temperature exceed the maximum in southern states in the hot southern areas of the country? Can't wait to see all the responses to this idea. Also, why hasn't any battery manufacturers done this for vehicular applications?

.

 

no thermal runaway issues with these at all . we have some lab tests were they over charged the cells to twice their nominal voltage . cells continued to function . a regular lead battery would probably explode if you overcharged it that much . the battery as configured is rated up to 16.8v so its not even close to its maximum .

as far as heat they are rated and tested to 55c so about 131 degrees , shouldn't be a problem

p.s. i live in s.Florida so they see lots of heat .

 

Is this your ebay listing? : https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lithium-***...hZ9fjR&vxp=mtr

 

yes that's mine . my partner up in minn also has the 11ah (but sold out of the larger ones).

i can do them a little cheaper with shipping direct then thru ebay

 

decided to do this one a little different . usually we have the posts sticking out of the boxes for easy connection of cables . This one i kept the terminals inside of the box for a cleaner look .

took some copper bar and made the terminals on their side to keep them inside . i usually heat shrink the connections but realized i'm out of the size i need so for today its duct tape !

this is the cells ready to be dropped in the box

 

Very intriguing. Just a couple questions:

Are there sources for the actual battery case? (I couldn't find any on-line, other than the marine-type boxes that a typical battery would be stored inside of.)

Being new to LTO technology, is it intuitive how these individual cells connect in series for assembly?

I won't need an actual replacement battery for a year, but it sounds like I can buy these now and not worry about storage for that long? If so, better to make up the battery now, or just store the cells as-is until needed?

 

Why did you not use 6 of the 55ah cells ?
What would the CCA be on that configuration ?

 

55ah would be way overkill . i probably could have gotten by with just 6 11ah cells but wanted to have plenty of reserve power so went with 12 . the 55ah ones used for the gem cars would weigh 24lbs and are about 12" x 11" so a tough fit in crossfire and no real advantage .

we built a 12 cell 11ah one and put it in a diesel tractor . diesel need a lot of power to start and it had no problems. i'm going to do a 6 cell for the waverunner , 12 cells for the muscle cars and 55ah for the boat ( boat needs lots of ah's for all the electronics , pumps , etc.)

here is a video from a guy who has bought multiple sets from us 11ah and 55ah

this is just 6 cells

 

WHat does the batterys case look like? Woody

 

so here it is installed and running . it looks so compact in there . landed up using the factory battery tie down , worked perfect . For those who want to lose even more weight you could remove the metal tie down and replace it with something lighter .

for a cleaner look i went to west marine and made a 16" negative battery cable and changed out the factory one , also easier to attach the copper terminals.

for battery boxes we use plastic ammo cans , they fit perfect . this one is an mtm (comes in green , black and purple!) plano has one almost identical and menard's sells one too.

if there is any interest i can assemble another one and take pictures . its pretty easy stuff.

 

From what I read it is not all rosy red.
CLICK
There are negatives to these batteries and living in a colder climate is one of them.
The best way to lose weight in your car is to go on a diet if you are carrying extra pounds around your waist.

 

wrong type of lithium . That article is about lithium iron , these are lithium Titanate LTO .

Lto has no carbon in it , no problems with fire , explosion , thermal nuclear meltdown , well you get the idea.

Toshiba is now making an LTO cell they call them SCiB , here is a little info from Toshiba:

What is SCiB™?
Toshiba SCiB™ is a highly safe rechargeable battery with six outstanding characteristics.
By using oxide-based materials (Lithium Titanium Oxide), SCiB™ is designed to prevent thermal runaway resulting from short circuiting caused by physical stress.
Furthermore, SCiB™ has various superior characteristics, including a long life exceeding 15,000 charge/discharge cycles, rapid charging time of 6 minutes, input/output current densities comparable with capacitors, and operation at temperatures as low as -30°C.

the cells i'm using sold for over $100/ea

 

What about the charging of them using our alternator?
What are the drawbacks as there has to be some?

 

they are compatible with our alternators . mine reads 14.2v when running and the pack can handle up to 16.5v.

disadvantages are weight and cost . a 12v 20ah racing battery from lithium pros (c925) weighs 7.75lbs compared to my 22ah one that weighs about 11lbs ready to drop in . in our case not a big deal but an electric car they would be hundreds of pounds heavier then other lithium's .

By far the biggest disadvantage is cost the big cells originally sold for $600/ea and these 11ah over $100 ea. a battery pack for a Tesla would be $100k plus few non commercial applications need discharge cycles in the tens of thousands . This is why they are used mostly in military and commercial applications . But if Toshiba can get the cost of theirs down you will start seeing them a lot more .

 

Could these be easily added to the top of the plastic ammo box to make it truly plug and play ?
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_122580...c&awug=9012851

 

yes was thinking something like that myself. just ordered these