Intake
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 9,595
Likes: 26
From: Kellyville, Ok
Re: Intake
Need a "like" button for threads!
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 274
Likes: 10
From: Clinton, Michigan
Re: Intake
After installing the v8 box,tubes and K&Ns my ultraguage readings for the MAF increased across the entire RPM range. More air = more power, this is fact. The engine can and will take in more air in than the stock setup allows. You are making the assumption that the stock air box is able to flow more air than the engine could use and without restriction. Changing out the stock filters alone will prove that to be false as you will get more air. Step up to the NW dual on an NA and you have an argument, that setup has the capacity to supply more air than the NA can use effectively without mods.
While I admit dyno results for an NA with only a CAI and no other mods is hard to find there are still some out there. Searching needswings intake dyno in google will give you a number of results for crossfires and other mercedes v6. The supercharged versions see more HP from the mod than the NA but it is still a good amount of power/$ considering the few options we have.
While I admit dyno results for an NA with only a CAI and no other mods is hard to find there are still some out there. Searching needswings intake dyno in google will give you a number of results for crossfires and other mercedes v6. The supercharged versions see more HP from the mod than the NA but it is still a good amount of power/$ considering the few options we have.
I'm talking NA not SRT, I saw that dyno result and it yielded 10hp total on an SRT.
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 274
Likes: 10
From: Clinton, Michigan
Re: Intake
"Seeing" and "Feeling" and "Thinking" something is a HORRIBLE design without proof or evidence is commonly referred to as bullshit. Same story here. Remember when the earth was flat?
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 9,595
Likes: 26
From: Kellyville, Ok
Re: Intake
Are you SEEING the light here
Are you FEELING this?
Are you THINKING this is way more effort to make a point than the keyboard takes.
Referencing bullshit.. is that equal to how concerned and willing to confirm your statements you are? Feel free to prove to us how the OEM will not restrict air flow requirements.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,192
Likes: 24
From: Ridgecrest, CA
Re: Intake
Yeah, NO. The OE setup only needs to flow as much air as the engine NEEDS to be non restrictive not more. Again the air intake demand is NOT infinite ever. If the engine (any engine) does not need more air additional air is useless.
I'm talking NA not SRT, I saw that dyno result and it yielded 10hp total on an SRT.
I'm talking NA not SRT, I saw that dyno result and it yielded 10hp total on an SRT.
What you don't understand is that 10 horse is 10 horse... Obviously the engine could use the extra air.
Now try to understand how much more the NA intake is restricted. The screens, elbow with blockage, ribs in the box that's on the engine getting heat soaked, thin cheap small obstructed tubes that heat soak after 5 minutes of driving, running from tiny itty bitty ports in the front...
Drive your car 100 miles straight onto a dyno, and run it. Put the needswings dual on that NA (that doesn't even need that much), run it 100 miles straight onto a dyno and come back to me with "mild gains".... Don't worry I'll wait.
I'm telling you right now my car is actually quite a bit faster with big ole stainless tubes, K&N's and a cut down exhaust. Mine's a V8 so it'll take better to mods but still... You're naive to think there are no gains to be made moving away from an intake that's made from a company that has effeciency, cost, durability, looks and quietness on their minds vs.... wait for it.... performance PERIOD.
Last edited by sk8erjosh09; May 20, 2014 at 06:33 PM.
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 274
Likes: 10
From: Clinton, Michigan
Re: Intake
No one's disagreeing with what you keep repeating... This is basic knowledge.
What you don't understand is that 10 horse is 10 horse... Obviously the engine could use the extra air.
Now try to understand how much more the NA intake is restricted. The screens, elbow with blockage, ribs in the box that's on the engine getting heat soaked, thin cheap small obstructed tubes that heat soak after 5 minutes of driving, running from tiny itty bitty ports in the front...
Drive your car 100 miles straight onto a dyno, and run it. Put the needswings dual on that NA (that doesn't even need that much), run it 100 miles straight onto a dyno and come back to me with "mild gains".... Don't worry I'll wait.
Ok man lol.
I'm telling you right now my car is actually quite a bit faster with big ole stainless tubes, K&N's and a cut down exhaust. Mine's a V8 so it'll take better to mods but still... You're naive to think there are no gains to be made moving away from an intake that's made from a company that has effeciency, cost, durability, looks and quietness on their minds vs.... wait for it.... performance PERIOD.
What you don't understand is that 10 horse is 10 horse... Obviously the engine could use the extra air.
Now try to understand how much more the NA intake is restricted. The screens, elbow with blockage, ribs in the box that's on the engine getting heat soaked, thin cheap small obstructed tubes that heat soak after 5 minutes of driving, running from tiny itty bitty ports in the front...
Drive your car 100 miles straight onto a dyno, and run it. Put the needswings dual on that NA (that doesn't even need that much), run it 100 miles straight onto a dyno and come back to me with "mild gains".... Don't worry I'll wait.
Ok man lol.
I'm telling you right now my car is actually quite a bit faster with big ole stainless tubes, K&N's and a cut down exhaust. Mine's a V8 so it'll take better to mods but still... You're naive to think there are no gains to be made moving away from an intake that's made from a company that has effeciency, cost, durability, looks and quietness on their minds vs.... wait for it.... performance PERIOD.
Are we done with the lol yet? How about facts? Comparing a modified V8 to a stock V6 is meaningless. I'm not naive about any of this subject matter, I'm quite aware of the design and cost parameters in play with the OE intake system. None of you have any evidence showing any power gain (from a cold air system) on a stock NA V6 as installed in a Crossfire. You all seem to think, feel, or believe it must though. I have not read any manufacturer of a system for a NA Crossfire claim, much less substantiate, a claim of more power. I've seen CFM referenced by some manufacturers and that is meaningless if the engine has no need for that CFM.
Show me facts not how you "feel".
Until then save yourself some keystrokes.
One last thing, you have those Tornado things on you intake right?
I've heard that those things are awesome and you pickup about 10 extra horsepower, you can get them on eBay so you know their legit.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,714
Likes: 454
From: Indialantic Fl./blairsville Ga
Re: Intake
Are we done with the lol yet? How about facts? Comparing a modified V8 to a stock V6 is meaningless. I'm not naive about any of this subject matter, I'm quite aware of the design and cost parameters in play with the OE intake system. None of you have any evidence showing any power gain (from a cold air system) on a stock NA V6 as installed in a Crossfire. You all seem to think, feel, or believe it must though. I have not read any manufacturer of a system for a NA Crossfire claim, much less substantiate, a claim of more power. I've seen CFM referenced by some manufacturers and that is meaningless if the engine has no need for that CFM.
Show me facts not how you "feel".
Until then save yourself some keystrokes.
One last thing, you have those Tornado things on you intake right?
I've heard that those things are awesome and you pickup about 10 extra horsepower, you can get them on eBay so you know their legit.
Show me facts not how you "feel".
Until then save yourself some keystrokes.
One last thing, you have those Tornado things on you intake right?
I've heard that those things are awesome and you pickup about 10 extra horsepower, you can get them on eBay so you know their legit.
, I'm out
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 669
Likes: 3
From: Cornelius, NC
Re: Intake
Are we done with the lol yet? How about facts? Comparing a modified V8 to a stock V6 is meaningless. I'm not naive about any of this subject matter, I'm quite aware of the design and cost parameters in play with the OE intake system. None of you have any evidence showing any power gain (from a cold air system) on a stock NA V6 as installed in a Crossfire. You all seem to think, feel, or believe it must though. I have not read any manufacturer of a system for a NA Crossfire claim, much less substantiate, a claim of more power. I've seen CFM referenced by some manufacturers and that is meaningless if the engine has no need for that CFM.
Show me facts not how you "feel".
Until then save yourself some keystrokes.
One last thing, you have those Tornado things on you intake right?
I've heard that those things are awesome and you pickup about 10 extra horsepower, you can get them on eBay so you know their legit.
Show me facts not how you "feel".
Until then save yourself some keystrokes.
One last thing, you have those Tornado things on you intake right?
I've heard that those things are awesome and you pickup about 10 extra horsepower, you can get them on eBay so you know their legit.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,015
Likes: 14
From: MOFN, AL, 70 miles from George
Re: Intake
Really.
And now I have to go drown my sorrows because all of my work has been...DEBUNKED!
God, I HATE that.
Seriously, didn't Rob have all of this info (dyno pulls/air bench results) in a thread here? Or was it on Needswing's website.
ZXZ, years ago I measured all of the incredible convolutions built into that plastic wonder DC calls an airbox, and, while I have no notes from that time, one of the cross sections was on the order of 2.125" average diameter (3.6 square inches area). While changing directions 90 degrees. It's a real POS.
Honest.
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 560
Likes: 15
From: Northern Virginia
Re: Intake
The stock MB intake is a compromise with a high priority given to damping intake noise. Many drivers are sensitive to such noise and the engineering "cost" to minimize this noise is to create the baffling design that begins to look like a muffler. Modders care little about such restrictions and noise so we open it up and the flow improves things especially when the car is tuned to take advantage of the freer airflow.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 9,595
Likes: 26
From: Kellyville, Ok
Re: Intake
I'd just like to see Goober-Boy here provide one shred of fact that our cars don't utilize the increased air flow. I guess the post about ultra gage showing an increased cfm at the maf sensor doesn't qualify.. pre programmed at the factory with a placebo I'm sure.. 
Senior Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,192
Likes: 24
From: Ridgecrest, CA
Re: Intake
Are we done with the lol yet? How about facts? Comparing a modified V8 to a stock V6 is meaningless. I'm not naive about any of this subject matter, I'm quite aware of the design and cost parameters in play with the OE intake system. None of you have any evidence showing any power gain (from a cold air system) on a stock NA V6 as installed in a Crossfire. You all seem to think, feel, or believe it must though. I have not read any manufacturer of a system for a NA Crossfire claim, much less substantiate, a claim of more power. I've seen CFM referenced by some manufacturers and that is meaningless if the engine has no need for that CFM.
Show me facts not how you "feel".
Until then save yourself some keystrokes.
One last thing, you have those Tornado things on you intake right?
I've heard that those things are awesome and you pickup about 10 extra horsepower, you can get them on eBay so you know their legit.
Show me facts not how you "feel".
Until then save yourself some keystrokes.
One last thing, you have those Tornado things on you intake right?
I've heard that those things are awesome and you pickup about 10 extra horsepower, you can get them on eBay so you know their legit.
Tornado things!?!?!?!?! LMAO you have no clue who you're talking to do you? hahahahaha lol lol ahahahalol lol
Annoyed yet? Cause we sure as hell all are.
LOL
Now, that's just not nice, guys.
Really.
And now I have to go drown my sorrows because all of my work has been...DEBUNKED!
God, I HATE that.
Seriously, didn't Rob have all of this info (dyno pulls/air bench results) in a thread here? Or was it on Needswing's website.
ZXZ, years ago I measured all of the incredible convolutions built into that plastic wonder DC calls an airbox, and, while I have no notes from that time, one of the cross sections was on the order of 2.125" average diameter (3.6 square inches area). While changing directions 90 degrees. It's a real POS.
Honest.
Really.
And now I have to go drown my sorrows because all of my work has been...DEBUNKED!
God, I HATE that.
Seriously, didn't Rob have all of this info (dyno pulls/air bench results) in a thread here? Or was it on Needswing's website.
ZXZ, years ago I measured all of the incredible convolutions built into that plastic wonder DC calls an airbox, and, while I have no notes from that time, one of the cross sections was on the order of 2.125" average diameter (3.6 square inches area). While changing directions 90 degrees. It's a real POS.
Honest.
And quote facts all day Max, who cares how you "feel" lol.
The stock MB intake is a compromise with a high priority given to damping intake noise. Many drivers are sensitive to such noise and the engineering "cost" to minimize this noise is to create the baffling design that begins to look like a muffler. Modders care little about such restrictions and noise so we open it up and the flow improves things especially when the car is tuned to take advantage of the freer airflow.
P.s. I may be drinking and pulling muscles from the laughter. I love people who are more stubborn than me lol. NO, it's not steel! It's galvanized unobtanium!!! Lmao
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,780
Likes: 184
From: Lineville, AL
Re: Intake
Let me start by saying I have a NW Gen 1 3" CAI, however on the scale the Aussie boys set in their video, a 4.4% increase is not noticeable.
They 'say' it takes a 7% increase to be noticeable, I notice it because at the same time I installed the CAI, I also added a 74mm throttle body and the EC tune.
I'd like to see a dyno chart of OEM versus my 3 way combo, cause I sure as heck can feel the difference, not to mention the glorious sound of the CAI when you punch it.
My average MPG also increased from 28 to 31 ( according to my UltraGuage ), which is most likely not completely accurate as I probably have the wrong parameters set in it.
I did NOT change the gauge parameters when I did the above updates, so it's apples to apples.
They 'say' it takes a 7% increase to be noticeable, I notice it because at the same time I installed the CAI, I also added a 74mm throttle body and the EC tune.
I'd like to see a dyno chart of OEM versus my 3 way combo, cause I sure as heck can feel the difference, not to mention the glorious sound of the CAI when you punch it.
My average MPG also increased from 28 to 31 ( according to my UltraGuage ), which is most likely not completely accurate as I probably have the wrong parameters set in it.
I did NOT change the gauge parameters when I did the above updates, so it's apples to apples.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,509
Likes: 7
From: Akron, Ohio
Re: Intake
NeedsWings CAI has cut the 1/4 mile times of "NA" cars by close to a 1/2 second. That's just a CAI, no other modification!
If you're not a Drag Racer, that probably doesn't sound like much.
But it really, REALLY is!
If you're not a Drag Racer, that probably doesn't sound like much.
But it really, REALLY is!
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,015
Likes: 14
From: MOFN, AL, 70 miles from George
Re: Intake
My V8 is an NA just as the V6 of topic lol. And lol lol lol lol lol lol lol because I am legitimately laughing. Thank you lol, seriously lol. lol.
Tornado things!?!?!?!?! LMAO you have no clue who you're talking to do you? hahahahaha lol lol ahahahalol lol
Annoyed yet? Cause we sure as hell all are.
LOL
He does. I remember Robs CAI being one of my first mods considered.
And quote facts all day Max, who cares how you "feel" lol.
BOOM!
Of course, cause without the flux capacitor Rob's intake's can't suck enough air to sling our cars to mach 1. Duh Greg LOL.
P.s. I may be drinking and pulling muscles from the laughter. I love people who are more stubborn than me lol. NO, it's not steel! It's galvanized unobtanium!!! Lmao
Tornado things!?!?!?!?! LMAO you have no clue who you're talking to do you? hahahahaha lol lol ahahahalol lol
Annoyed yet? Cause we sure as hell all are.
LOL
He does. I remember Robs CAI being one of my first mods considered.
And quote facts all day Max, who cares how you "feel" lol.
BOOM!
Of course, cause without the flux capacitor Rob's intake's can't suck enough air to sling our cars to mach 1. Duh Greg LOL.
P.s. I may be drinking and pulling muscles from the laughter. I love people who are more stubborn than me lol. NO, it's not steel! It's galvanized unobtanium!!! Lmao
Junior.
What did you mean by this? I 've performed a bunch of work on our intakes and figuring out just what we have and the best way to improve it.
Have you?
