Hello again folks! My 2004 Limited is sitting in the parking lot at work in a No-Start condition. I've been through all the stickies on common problems and I'm pretty sure this ain't one of them. Anyone care to help me diagnose?

1.) No prior warning signs of trouble - no warning lights or hard starting etc.

2.) Got in car, turned key. Lights and radio came on for a moment, then when I turned key to 'start' the whole dash went dead. Starter clicked once and then died. Engine did not crank or turn over.

3.) Having had trouble with the Skreem module in the past, i pulled fuse #9, disconnected the battery, and waited half an hour (this has worked in the past). Came back, re connected everything, same thing happened as above.

4.) Battery is 2.5 years old. Hoping that was the problem, called AAA and someone came out and jumped battery from a box. Started right up and ran fine. Box showed good current from alternator. Yay! It was just a dead battery!

5.) No it wasn't. I let the car idle for 45 minutes to recharge battery. Turned it off and back on again - same symptoms as in problem #2. Dash goes dead as soon as I turned key to 'start'. No lights, no radio, no starter motor.

6.) Installed brand-new battery. Same symptoms. Note that, until I turn the key to Start, everything works; I can leave it in the 'run' position and all my accessories work.

Ive eliminated the battery and alternator as problems. It's nkt the CPS because the engine doesn't even crank, and my understanding of the RCM issue is that you still have accessories, whereas mine go dead.

Grounding issue? Short in the ignition column? Skreem module? Any suggestions very welcome. My next step ia just to tow it to the dealership and pay them to just start making guesses .

-Victor

 

Is this a manual or an auto transmission?

 

I'm on board with grounding issues.

 

I agree sounds to me like a bad ground somewhere in the system, I would start with the battery ground cable and give it a good thorough inspection and if nothing was discovered I would move to the ground strap under the car that goes from the frame to the transmission bellhousing. I would also take the cover off of the RCM box next to the battery and move the wires around that go to the plugs on the RCM and the BCM and the ECM sometimes the plugs lose continuity and just moving the connectors around can re-establish connection, I know this can happen because I had to do that to my BCM module and all was well afterwards.. good luck and I hope this helps.

 

Hmm I looked all around the bell housing and I don't see a strap to the frame anywhere. Where is it *supposed* to be? (Sorry I would look in the service manual but I'm at work and dony have it one me)

Onehundred80 : it's a manual transmission

 

As you know when you press the clutch pedal prior to starting the manual transmission cars a switch is activated. Could that safety switch be faulty?

 

Sorry didn't know was a 6-speed, 5 speed Auto has a ground strap underneath on the driver side, not sure about the 6- speed but I'd be willing to bet a cold beer that there's a ground strap on the six-speed somewhere between engine and Chassis.😉 180 would the clutch interlock switch cause it to lose all power like he has expressed? I don't have any experience with the 6 speed my Roadster is an automatic.

 

I am not there, I don't know what is wrong with your car. A few minutes with a voltmeter and your keys and I certainly WOULD know, but maybe this will help.

There is a ground strap from the engine to chassis/frame. Mine went open and I had a similar symptom, I did not waste time looking for a damn broken strap - I could measure almost 5 volts between the engine block and battery negative post (I told you that a voltmeter will tell you what you have) - so I KNEW it was open/broken/gone.

My answer -
Go to the store and get one of these:



Now, cut that damn yellow splice off there and crimp on a ring terminal lug of size that fits the battery cable ground bolt just under the fender near the battery. Next, remove the existing battery ground cable and throw it away. Grab your new cable, fasten the clamp to the battery and then secure the ring terminal with the battery ground bolt at the fender that you just removed in order to get the battery ground cable off.

Lastly, run the HEAVY lead to the engine block, find a big-**** bolt and put it under the bolt and tighten. Ideally, you should use the bolt the bad strap is using - but I sure didn't. I removed one of the alternator bolts and passed it thru the lug of this cable and tightened it down. Problem solved.

Were I there, before I did ANYTHING I'd go looking for voltage drops on the positive side when you turn the key or voltage gains on the negative side when you turn the key. Ohm's and Kirchoff's laws will tell you what you have. BUT, given how you descibed what is happening, I'd ALMOST bet the ground from the engine to the chassis/frame is missing/gone/bad/etc. and my fix above would get you around that for about $15usd and maybe 30-45 minutes of your time. Even if I'm wrong here, would $15 and less than an hour of your time be worth it to KNOW that the grounds from engine to chassis/battery are GOOD? Because doing what I'm telling you to do WILL give you THAT.

If you do what I said and NOTHING changes, well, that means we KNOW it is on the positive side, so then open the little box near hte battery and inspect the tightness of the nuts on the 200amp fuse in there. But I don't see that as the issue, I really dont.

 

NO llllllllllllllllll

 

I do not know, just an idea, I'd check to see if there was any power going to the starter, maybe it is toast and shorting. Maybe there is a poor cable to battery terminal, loose connection, corroded cable terminal. Poor ground as mentioned. Any codes set?
Where did the AAA man make ground to the chassis, did he use the battery or another ground source like he is supposed to? If he did that may point to your problem, a bad ground.
I had a similar problem once, I had forgot to tighten the terminal clamp nut, suddenly, no start and no power anywhere.

 

And that boys and girls is how it is done!!😃 thank you pizza and 180.

 

Well, the prize goes (tenatively) to... Kingdav1954, for his suggestion about the loose connections / bad ground inside the rat's nest in the RCM box.

I checked all the grounding points on the chassis that I could identify, and and they all looked clean & correct. I opened the box which contains the RCM, took the RCM out, and checked the solder points per the sticky on that topic, just for good measure. They all looked fine.

Got back in the car and turned the key - still nothing from the starter, BUT now the accessories and dash stayed on even after turning the key to the Start position. Hmmm...

Got out and took RCM out of box again. Jiggled all connections and pressed them very firmly back into sockets.

Car started up without a hitch. Drove it home, shut it off, started it up again. It's like it never happened.

So now I'm a little worried that whatever was out-of-whack could wriggle out of place again at any moment, leaving me stranded somewhere. But if it does at least I (with patience and a little luck) have a fix. Thanks to everyone for their advice!

Two parting questions:

Do you think re-grounding the battery to the chassis with a DIY hack as Pizzaguy described would prevent this from happening again, even if whatever was loose in the RCM box were to go wrong again?

Also, does it make sense to replace the RCM just for good measure? Or is that unlikely to have been related to my issue, in your experience?

Thanks again for all your help! This site/community is amazing.

 

Iv'e spent every day of my career since 1982 in troubleshooting (to the component level, not just changing boards) in electronics from DC to 1 gHz RF. And (in answer to your parting questions) my gut feeling is that the ground issue we keep referring to is the issue.

It is my position that you have fooled yourself here into thinking that the RCM is at fault. But, I COULD BE WRONG. It's just that as I look at the diagrams, I'm having a hard time blaming the exact results you describe on the RCM and it's wiring. It's this "dash lights go out when I turn to START" that I am 'keying' on. Again, I am NOT there with your car so this is hard....

I hate to see someone order a $130 RCM when you are describing (IF its the RCM) a fractured solder joint or intermittant pin in one of the connectors.

IF IT WERE ME, I'd do two things:

1) Yank the RCM and carry it into a radio shop where technicians work who know how to solder. For maybe $20 one will reflow the solder on the RCM board.
2) Do my ground cable mod I wrote about.


That's all I got right now. I'm still really convinced there is a ground going open. HELL, even an intermittent battery cable terminal clamp can cause this.

I just don't know....................................

 

After review, I cannot say for certain that a failed "Engine Control Relay" output on the RCM would NOT look like this.
I've never had the "mystery no start" due to such a failure.

I still hate to see you buy a new RCM. I'd really like to see you reflow the joints on the board, or get someone to do it for you. And since you said moving stuff in there got it going......... I'm moving to the position of "maybe it IS the RCM's EGR output...."

 

All suggestions / remedies that were given by contributing members was solid advice gained from experience , you can never have too much ground and I would implement Pizza Guys suggestion, what I did on mine was to disconnect ground cable and unplug each connector in each module and clean the contacts with contact cleaner and then reinstall, that seem to fix my problem. If you have never replaced the RCM I would suggest you buy one and keep it in the car because eventually it will fail.