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Error code P2096 and P2099

  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-23-2017, 09:49 AM
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockholm
Age: 60
Posts: 17
Default Error code P2096 and P2099

Hi,
I have got problem with my car's emission control system and get a MIL light up with the error code:
P2096, Catalyst trim system too lean, bank 1
P2099, Catalyst trim system too rich, bank 2

I have found threads here that discuss how to solve it, but no one that I have found has any answer how they solved the problem at the end.

I interpret the error code like this. When engine idle the vacuum is high and that's causing the error code P2096 because of vaccum leakage. When run at higher speed and with load the vacuum goes down and now it gives too rich and give error code P2099. The system is disturbed by the vacuum leakage and working with wrong parameters because of the self learning regulation system.

When starting to solve this I replaced both upstrem O2 sensors, even if it was not necessary. I have also tested all fuel injectors and they are ok, I replaced the O-rings here too.

I found a leak at one of the valve covers and the oil stick O-ring looked bad. Fixed that.

It works much better now but not perfect and the MIL lights after 16 miles driving.

Next thing to investigate is if there is a leakage under the throttle body and a bad O-ring.

I try to document what I'm doing, both for myself and others that have simular problems.

It's here on my homepage:
http://astrofriend.eu/vehicles/my-ca...-problems.html

Anyone that have solved a problem like this or have ideas where to look?

/Lars

Homepage:
http://astrofriend.eu/
 

Last edited by Astrofriend; 09-25-2017 at 10:33 AM.
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-23-2017, 10:43 PM
zip439's Avatar
Forum Regular
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SE Alabama
Posts: 544
Default Re: Error code P2096 and P2099

I had code P2098, Bank 2 post catalytic too lean, a few years back. (Same as your 2096, but bank 2 vice 1) It was caused by a split weld seam on the forward catalytic converter. The split seam could not be seen from under the car, but I found it by moving a short length of garden hose along the pipe while it was running and listening through the hose as I moved it from the exhaust manifold down the pipe. I removed the pipe with the converter, welded the split seam and it has been fine since then.

P.S. I looked at your astronomy home page. VERY NICE. I too enjoy astronomy. It was my hobby as a young boy which I developed into a career as a ships navigator. I spent 20 years at sea. My wife and I drove a few hundred miles to the north of our home and did see the Aug 21, eclipse in totality. You are much more advanced than I in astronomy as I have given that hobby up, but stay busy with my Crossfire. WELCOME TO THE CROSSFIRE FORUM!
 

Last edited by zip439; 09-23-2017 at 11:27 PM.
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2017, 06:32 PM
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockholm
Age: 60
Posts: 17
Default Re: Error code P2096 and P2099

Hi Zip439,
Thank you for a great advice to check the exhaust system for a leakage. I thought that any leak should be clearly heard with out that hose help.

I started this day to check all vacuum lines with the garden hose trick. The only place I could hear a weak whistling sound from was the two hoses that are connected to the valve cover. When I disconnect the hose and held my thumb over the open end the whistling sound disappear. Then there was not any leak here.

After that I started to check the exhaust system using the same method. But I could only work through the engine room, the car is too low and I couldn't reach the exhaust system from under. I could test the exhaust manifold, the connection of O2 sensor and the joint after where the catalytic converter connect. That part sounds ok. Maybe I can take it to a garage and let them do a pressure test.

To summarize where I stand now:

Bank 1 (passenger side)

O2-sensor 1 upstream, pendling between 0.1 to 0.9 volt several times per second. Looks to be ok.

O2-sensor 2 downstream, idle and cold 0.5 volt. Not driving car but 1500 rpm the voltage decrease and suddenly it start pendling betweeen 0.1 volt to 0.9 volt, about the same as for sensor 1. When driving under load it could have any value between 0.1 to 0.8 volt. Later it can go down to 0.1 volt under low load on the engine. I will say strange behavior.

Error code P2096, too lean


Bank 2 (driver side)

O2-sensor 1 upstream, pendling between 0.1 to 0.9 volt several times per second. Looks to be ok.

O2-sensor 2 downstream, idle and cold 0.5 volt. One minute later when the control system goes over to closed loop it start to incease, end after about ten minutes at 0.9 volt. Not driving car but 1500 rpm the voltage change a bit down. When driving under load it could have any value between 0.3 to 0.9 volt.

Error code P2099, too rich



I must say, I'm not sure if I have a problem at bank 1 or bank 2 or I have two separate different problems. But I think it's only one bank that's wrong and the other just depends on the other. In your case it was only one error code.

When I open a vacuum hose and let air come in all four O2 sensor goes down quickly to 0.1 volt. When reconnect they go up again to the voltage they had before. That test gave correct behavior, ok.

It's a bit strange, especially the bank 1 system. It could behave different different days. If I have a crack in the cat of bank 1, maybe it opens and close dependent of the situation?

I bought four O2-sensors and have only used two of them yet. Maybe I shall try to replace the two post sensors too. But to save money I just bought two with complete sensors with connector mounted, the other two with only cables. I thought I could take the connectors from the bad ones that I replace. But now none of them seems to be broken and then I don't want to cut the cables of the old ones yet. I also have the two replaced upstream O2-sensors that looks to be working, but one of them had a bad thread, then I don't want to use that one.

But to my surprice I can't find anywhere to buy new electric connectors to them, any one know where to find them? I found the connector house but not the sockets that I need four of to every house.


ps.
Yes, astronomy is really exciting, but now with all the time I'm spend on this Crossfire I do not get any time left over to the astronomy. Now, for example, I would finish the new observatory so that I can now start taking photos from the summer house, we have much better darkness there compare in the city. 20 years out on the oceans sounds great!

Lars

Homepage:
Astrofriend's homepage
 

Last edited by Astrofriend; 09-24-2017 at 06:35 PM.
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2017, 10:34 AM
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockholm
Age: 60
Posts: 17
Default Re: Error code P2096 and P2099

Updated my repair work with lot of new photos:
2005 years Chrysler Crossfire: Emission control system

/Lars
 
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2017, 02:37 PM
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Concord
Age: 64
Posts: 261
Default Re: Error code P2096 and P2099

Originally Posted by Astrofriend View Post
Updated my repair work with lot of new photos:
2005 years Chrysler Crossfire: Emission control system

/Lars
Thank you Lars, your work is very impressive, I appreciate the systematic diagnostic work as well as the in-depth research. Your photo essay and tutorial will be of great help too many in the future. Once again thank you for sharing.
 
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2017, 11:40 PM
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockholm
Age: 60
Posts: 17
Default Re: Error code P2096 and P2099

Thanks for the positive comments, yes I spend a lot of time to document what I'm doing. I almost always get some usefull feedback and at the end I can solve my problem and hopefully other can solve their problem too with that information.

I must say that the Crossfire is a nice car to work with. Not too complicated and a lot of information to get. And then there are very easy to find spareparts when it shares it with Mercedes. But the headlights are tricky and expensive.

Lars
 
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2017, 06:32 AM
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockholm
Age: 60
Posts: 17
Default Re: Error code P2096 and P2099

Last night I did a big progress and found very useful information about how the down stream sensors works.

I used the words: "voltage graph downstream O2 sensor" when Google searh.

Especially this youtube link was useful:

And I also found that the Car Doctor app had the Long Term Fuel Trim values which I don't have in Tourqe app. I now see that the LTFT values are totally wrong, -8% and -20%. But how can they have that values when the short term values are around 0% ? I have driven the car many miles / km so it should have been corrected.

I also have a question:
Do anyone know how long the cables are to the down stream O2 sensors? I use 0.5 m to the upstreams O2 sensors and they work fine.


I wrote about this and updated my homepgae, at bottom:
2005 years Chrysler Crossfire: Emission control system

/Lars
 
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2017, 11:51 AM
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Concord
Age: 64
Posts: 261
Default Re: Error code P2096 and P2099

Originally Posted by Astrofriend View Post
Last night I did a big progress and found very useful information about how the down stream sensors works.

I used the words: "voltage graph downstream O2 sensor" when Google searh.

Especially this youtube link was useful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyVnhCIMDnw

And I also found that the Car Doctor app had the Long Term Fuel Trim values which I don't have in Tourqe app. I now see that the LTFT values are totally wrong, -8% and -20%. But how can they have that values when the short term values are around 0% ? I have driven the car many miles / km so it should have been corrected.

I also have a question:
Do anyone know how long the cables are to the down stream O2 sensors? I use 0.5 m to the upstreams O2 sensors and they work fine.


I wrote about this and updated my homepgae, at bottom:
2005 years Chrysler Crossfire: Emission control system

/Lars
Left side Downstream original equipment Bosch part number 16123, / 9.4 in. Long (Heated ) with 4 wire connector.

Right side Downstream original equipment Bosch part number 16276, / 12.6 in. Long ( heated ) with 4 wire connector.
 
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2018, 04:32 AM
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockholm
Age: 60
Posts: 17
Default Re: Error code P2096 and P2099

Hi all Crossfire owners,
Now at last I think I got to fix the MIL light up problem.


It looks like some earlier owner has mixed the left and right cable to the downstream O2-sensors.


I have some photos and more deeper information text here on my homepage if you find it interesting or have similar problems:
2005 years Chrysler Crossfire: Emission control system, page IV


Thanks for all help from all of you!


/Lars
 
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2018, 08:45 PM
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 18
Default Re: Error code P2096 and P2099

Just a quick shout out and thank you to Astrofriend... I found this thread while trying to diagnose a 2004 I rescued with a Check Engine Light and the exact codes. I was about to drop time and money on O2 sensors then I am certain now still end up taking to a shop. After reading this I found out that the previous owner had done some work under the car and disconnected the downstream sensors. I swapped the cables and immediately the car ran better, no CEL in 125 miles and it passed emissions.
Thank you!
 
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2018, 03:37 PM
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockholm
Age: 60
Posts: 17
Default Re: Error code P2096 and P2099

Hi,
I'm glad to hear that you could repair your car. I have also read at some other place about a Crossfire owner that also had these cables wrong connected, very strange.

Now I have driven my car about 5000 km (8000 miles) since I repaired it without problem with the engine. It's winter now in Sweden and I don't use the car, maybe I can take it out in early Mars.

The car is waiting for me:
Chrysler Crossfire gallery 2017

/Lars
 

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