By request of a few customers and necessity of our next project we will be carrying Sun Automobile's line of products.

They can all be seen here: www.sunautomobile.com

Their product line includes the highly questionable Hyper Ground and Hyper Voltage kits. These systems are suppossed to reduce electrical interference by grouping the electrical currents in one place. The theory is that this will provide less interference with the ECU and better overall performance. The claims are modest at best (3-8 HP), so its not all that unbelievable.

Some of the other gas saving products are a little more far fetched, but I'll probably get them and throw them on the Prius to see if there are any gains.

We will offer any of the products on their website at the following discounts:

0-$500, 15% off retail
$600-$1000, 18% off retail
$1100+, 22% off retail

Basically I'll list names and total item prices for each person interested. Obviously we won't know price until everyone is in. I'll let this run for 10 days.

We'll start:

TVT_Design: 967.96

There you go already at 18% off of retail.

 

Are you going to carry additional wires for the hyper voltage system....or just the ones that come in the blister pack with the system?

 

>> the highly questionable Hyper Ground and Hyper Voltage kits <<

This is the biggest bottle of snake-oil perpetrated on the uninformed and naive car owner I have ever seen. You get a package of sparkly wires with fancy connectors and a bill for one or three hundred dollars.

Every "before and after" dyno test I have ever seen used to try an substantiate the claims about performance increases is flawed. The controls on the tests were not present, the vehicle underwent several other modifications or was tested several months earlier for the "before".

I contact the represented the manufacturer (Sun) and after several exchanges with one of their "engineers" I was convinced it was a sham. No engineering studies (promised) were ever produced. Flimsy claims were offered that raised more questions than answered.

Consider that a company like Chrysler or Mercedes Benz
1. Do not sell these products in their own performance catalog
2. Do not offer these products as standard equipment
3. Do not use these products on their racing vehicles.

If there was such a problem with grounding a vehicle that these products actually did something, it would be detected before the vehicle went into production.

With all due respect to the vendor who posted this message, please don't carry products we know are bogus just because you've been asked to do so. It erodes your credibility and raises the concern that you will sell anything just to make some money. Honestly, I'd rather see you sponsor a valid scientific test to demonstrate how useless this stuff really is. That would be a great service to the automotive enthusiast community!

In case anyone wants to ask what my qualificatios are - I am an engineer for one of the largest aerospace companies in the world. I assure you, there are no hyper-grounds on the F-35...

 

TVT_Design did include a clear disclaimer in this presentation:

"includes the highly questionable Hyper Ground and Hyper Voltage kits."

Give them a little bit of credit?

 

Not arguing but just throwing my 2 cents in. I agree with everything you mentioned except for one. The statement about would have included it as original equipment or fixed it when the vehicle went into production. Don't get me wrong, if there is no benefit, no one should claim there is but every single mod I have decided on made me think how easy it would have been to include this as original equipment or at least "their" version. The production "cost factor" is a bunch of crap. All the mods I have listed has improved upon an already great overall product but I can't help but to think things like the larger HE, more volume HE pump etc. SL55 pipe should have been done from the start. They figured for the masses, it was perfectly acceptable as is.

I too would like to see hard facts. I always keep an open mind when it comes to poducts that are not as conventional and as widely accepted until proven they don't work. The Code3 pully is one of them. There were a ton of people that wanted to discredit the piece just because it was against some people thought process as being a reliable and safe product. At this point, it has been my favorite mod.

Steve

 

For people that are interested in the offer TVT has graciously made, let's not fill this thread up with negative/wastefull comments. We've all read about the grounding kits etc., and it has been discussed in other threads on this forum. TVT is not making any claims here.

 

We're doing a battery relocation kit and this is the easiest and best looking way to clean up the necessary wiring.

As for not offering it OEM, they actually offer grounding kits in Japan in almost every high performance car as a factory option. You are not going to get 10-15 HP, I think the largest claim is somewhere in the 3 HP range, which is completely not noticeable. However, it does clean up the electrical noise much like a thicker spark plug wire.

I'm in no way touting these products as the "Ultimate in Performance," but we were placing an order and figured we'd pass along the savings. If we don't plan on selling large amounts of a product this is how we offer it to our customers. Look at the alcohol inection thread. We need 5 kits and we're selling them at our price to save the members money if they were going to get it.

 

In the engineering community it is called a single point ground and has some applications but the claims of horsepower gain are as bogus as the super fat speaker wire improves the sound, totally subjective, as stated above: Snake oil. Enjoy ,Woody

 

Er, yeah ,that was the first line of my post... I also said "with all due respect".

 

Oh you're absolutely right - there are a ton of things that don't get put in because it raises the cost, has limited mass-market appeal, may reduce Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE), reduce the life of key components (like tires, brakes, and so on), and generally not offer an improved experience for the average consumer. I hear you all the way. I have seven years of fairly substantial mods to one of my vehicles that proves this for my style of motoring.

No, what I meant was, some of the claims surrounding hyper-ground "systems" is that they "fix" problems. And what I was saying was if there really were problems that the hyper-ground could fix, the manufacturer would fix the problem (or include the hyperground). That's not the case.

There is one manufacturer that actually does offer a hyper-ground product as a branded item. I have to say that it didn't convince me of the merit of the hyper-ground. It convinced me that some companies will sell anything if there's a sucker out there that will buy it. I don't think anyone who really understands electronics and automotive engineering would every buy the story, and I doubt even less they'd spend their money trying to prove a false-advertising claim against the manufacturers.

The first time I heard of these things was about five years ago and I was amazed that people actually believed it. Me, I'd rather spend the few hundred dollars on something that does make a difference or materially improves my automotive experience.

Now to be fair, I know there are hundreds of people driving around their cars with these things on who swear by them, love the way they feel after they install them, believe the car is faster, etc. I get the same feeling out of a good car washing and detailing. I know my car goes faster after that last coat of wax! To each his own.

Just trying to save the poor kid who only has a couple hundred to spend on his/her car and thinks this is really going to matter. Spend your money on an OBD diagnostic interface for your laptop, or a good set of quality tools.

Here's an old thread on hyperground where I was a lot less kind.

http://matrixowners.com/?showtopic=5465&st=180

 

So since we all agree that this is not a HP gaining product, is there anyone else interested?

 

I'm interested in the battery relocation. Price and availability??