(Cant argue with THAT thread title, can you? )

It's now time to "go over" the Graphite Roadster and make myself comfortable with my new car.

ISSUE ONE: The battery.

Jim still had the original battery in this car! He often added water to it, and in this process (I guess) acid kinda got on "other stuff" under there. What this means is, the battery ground cable was corroded all to hell.

No problem, right? RIGHT! I took the old battery out and went to O'Reilly's last night and got another battery and a new ground cable. $107 and I was on my way home. Problem solved? Sure.

Design flaw in my (our?) cars discovered? Well, it is my personal opinion - yes.

See, it has been my experience that manufacturers build cars following a simple rule: When the starter is engaged, it draws as much as 300 amps. This current requirement means that ANY resistance in the cables from the battery to the starter will degrade the starter's ability to turn the engine over. Therefore, the very heavy positive cable goes directly to the starter solenoid/relay then on to the starter motor. FINE - no problem.

And the negative cable, as it comes off the battery is split into two cables:

1) A very heavy cable going directly to the starter frame (usually, actually, it goes to the engine block - often physically very close to the starter motor itself.)
2) A medium - large cable (a number 8 or 10 gauge) that is grounded to the chassis.

Now we have a very high-current-capable path for the starter... And since the alternator is mounted/grounded to the engine block, the charging path is kept secure and of low resistance.

-------

But this is not how our cars were built! I can't believe I did not notice this last year when replacing the battery in the Red Roadster, but our cars have one very heavy ground cable, about 8 inches long, that goes to the chassis - the fender wall near the battery. THIS MEANS that the high current path to the starter (now get this) is from the positive terminal of the battery, down the heavy cable to the starter, thru the starter, into the engine block, then to the chassis (how?), then back up to the battery.

See what I 'see'? I want to know where the heavy jumper from the block to chassis is. And I want to know just how "protected" it's connectors are in preparation for the aging process than can introduce resistance. If this connection become compromised in any way, the starter won't have the 'juice' to turn the engine over. In an extreme condition, the charging path is also compromised.

My question: Take a look at your OTHER cars - are they building cars like this today? Is this the new normal?

I only have 8 to 10 year old vehicles around me, so I can't say for sure what the industry is doing. But after 30 years of making a living in electronics and working in shops where we troubleshoot electrical problems in police/fire/ems and other vehicles, I can tell you that, in time, cable connectors and splices (as well as the chassis/frames themselves) DO develop resistance and poor contacts.

I wish I was at work today, we have three new vehicles in various stages of "build" (where we are adding lights, siren, radios, etc.) and I've got a good mind to check to see where the battery's big, heavy ground cable goes.

In any event, my cars(s) will, eventually, be modified with a longer, heavier cable directly to the block.

 

Pizza, look under the drivers side at the back of the engine/transmission. There is a braided ground wire from the frame to the engine. I like your idea of a good ground from the battery to the the block closer to the starter.

 

Mark, Usually I don't open a post written by PIZZA when PIZZA is in the subject title. Too much drama for a car forum ....

But this time I did.

I also noticed this ground cable issue last year. And I don't like it as well. If I suspect at any time in the future this becomes a problem, I have a solution in mind. My plan is to purchase or fabricate a cable to mount on the same bolt as is now (create a junction without modifiying the original integrety), and run it over to a bell housing bolt or something easier once the engine cover is off. Another thing to remember, you should mount the cable directly to the block, cylinder head at the least, never to an engine bracket of any kind.

James

 

Topping up with water would not make the acid spill out. The bottom of the fill holes is below the vent holes and air is trapped making a safe level for the acid. Too much water will overflow the fill holes but not come out the vents except if the acid sloshes around too much.
If the little plastic catch basin and the rear battery plug are not in place the fumes will vent and corrosive acid will precipitate around the earthing cable. If these run down the cable they can creep up inside the cable.
Using a charger will create more fumes and the bubbling on the plates causes a corrosive mist.
That catch basin and rear plug have a purpose, use them.

 

Oh James, ya must be really bored today...LOL

 

When i first joined the forum, I recall several threads on "super grounding" the Crossie. I was a newbie and ignored them mostly but now that our cars are becoming geriatric, perhaps a review is in order.

I found the search feature here to be useless. Help anyone?

roadste with a stick

 

Never have an issue with loss of circuit or corrosion resistance. I Waxoyl my harnesses where applicable. As in the large terminal relay box in engine compartment. Take lid off and spray it in. Six years and no corrosion.Looks new. Same on battery terminals and ground strap. Relays love it..no silicone. Gary

 

How's this fit the bill?
https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...tml#post256769

 

Pizza is Disturbed ! - Today , 12:54 PM

It should read Pizza is Disturbed ! - Every day , 24/7

From what I hear chrysler has issues with more than our cars when it comes to the ground. Probably why, when our batteries get a little weak things start going wacky right away.

 

They probably saved a nickel on each car they made. I think it's the only reason a manufacturer takes a shortcut.

 

B-B-But Benzes are the best engineered cars in the world. I seen it on the Tely


roadster with a stick

 

I watch the Formula one circuit. If you want to win you use an English chassis. Including Benz, Ferarri and Renault. Honda I don't know. McClaren , Lotus and Cooper come to mind. Gary

 

I had to chuckle when I read this. At least you know where the battery is! We spent about two hours yesterday afternoon at the dealers trying to find where they put the battery on the Cobra I'm buying. You would think in the trunk ...... no, under the hood? ....... no. Behind the seats? ....... no. I was beginning to wonder if the thing even had a battery. So I crawl under it from the back and there up under the car is the battery all tucked away on a drop down shelf.....its getting moved to the trunk. Then my other fear.........where is the dip stick? This is a custom built race engine but its got to have a dip stick. We had to call the old owner. Its a billet screw in dip stick that is stuck between the headers. Pizza I don't want to hijack your thread. I know you'll fix that battery issue quickly! At least its in a place you can get to it. I wish you nothing but smiles with your new car, I know I'll miss mine.

 

Sounds like the same thing Ford did with the E350 diesel vans. They also have 2 drop down batteries from inside of the frame rail. The battery boxes hang down by cables to service the batteries. Not impossible, but hard to service for just one guy.

 

Brag Post !!

 

Is that what they call it Bill

 

My thoughts EXACTLY!

Thanks Mike!

 

So...... hopefully Pizza is a little less disturbed now.

Happy New Years everyone, and I hope Mark has a much better year to come.

 

Not until we tell him how dirty his tailpipes are on his new roadster (see the pic in his sig).

 

I saw that, just been SO busy this week... but Im gonna get to it!