This thread is a continuation of a "no crank no start" problem originating under pulse module.
2005 crossfire
Automatic
quick summery;
- car was having intermittent fuel pump relay issues but car was due for winter storage so problem resolution differed to spring
- Re connected a fully charged 1yr old battery after storing the car for the winter.
- was having a problem with battery drain, so disconnected siren
- I have never experienced the 3 start skreem fault sequence
- ordered new relays (needs wings) and replaced fuel pump relay
- all fuses checked, OK, No rad fan run up symptom, manually closed start relay on pulse mod and starter fired.
- wired a momentary switch from inside the driver door to pulse mod to provide gnd and starter circuit turned over engine. This is how I start the car with the key in the start position
- wired a gnd to fuel pump relay primary side to supply fuel and car will start and run.
- used car as daily driver with no problems other that my 2 modifications and a check engine light
- check engine light on with a 2/2 O2 sensor heater fault. Ordered new O2 sensor and installed, did not resolve the problem
- output from both downstream sensors similar, when at operating temps
Had knee replacement surgery, sold my home, put everything in storage and no time to troubleshoot.
Trailered my Crossfire to Florida and have resumed troubleshooting.
- ordered a new RCM (Amazon) and installed
- new batteries installed in both keys, all wires removed for my mods and original wires reconnected(car put back in factory condition) and still no crank
- swapped bank one and bank two O2 sensors but fault did not move
- voltage check on ECU side of heater circuit for downstream bank 2 indicates no gnd or low pulsing voltage similar to the readings I measured on downstream bank 1 ECU side of heater circuit
- readings taken at plug C211, with nothing between the ECU and this plug.
Cannot understand how this circuit became faulty as I can't see any wiring damage due to mice or other rodents chewing on them. Vehicle was wintered indoors.
I am still driving the car and have tried using most functions (automatic spoiler deploy, cruise control, anti theft, garage door opener, door lock; unlock) and all work
At this point, I would like to swap in an ECU from another crossfire just to see if this circuit works. I read through the thread on ECU repair and the chip replacement approach looks doable if it gets to that point.
Alternatively just drive it as it is and not through any more $$$ at it. (not preferred)
Any suggestions

 

Welcome back. Have you check your grounds at the ECU. If there is more that 70 ohms to ground, the solenoid won't be able to close the relay. I had a splice go bad - no mouse or rubbing as far as I could tell, but it was bad - I probed both sides of it. Maybe one of the ground lines from the ECU has a splice in it (just a guess). Do you have access to a DRBIII code reader? Maybe someone is near you in Florida. If you read the ECU, it might tell you why it's stopping the starting circuit.
-Jerry

 

ECU normally don't go bad, and if you damage the chips or the epromm on the ecu... red on to something, I would check the rcm, It happens to get bad rcm from time to time as well

 

Thanks Jerry, I wasn't thinking about the grounds as so much of the ECU/PCM functions are working, but after your suggestion, I would imagine there are many circuits on the board getting there grounds from multiple points.
ECU/PCM plug 5 pins 5,6,7,and 8 are all grounds connected to G101. Measured resistance from plug C5 to G101 and all were good. (.2 ohm) then measured from ECU/PCM plug 5 direct to battery ground and all were good, same .2 ohm.
There are other pins on the ECU/PCM labeled as sensor ground (plug C3 and C4) but believe these are more descriptive, unlike the 4 pins on C5 which are shown as grounding points where expected results can be compared to measured results.
I tend to agree the ECU/PCM would rarely go defective, so I think I may be at a point where I need to drive over to the local Chrysler dealership (sorry Pizza guy) and talk to the service manager to see if he has a tech who was trained on these cars and if they still have a DRB3 scanner that they can connect and just tell me what the Reason for the "no start "condition is. Hopefully, it would point to why there is no heater operation on the o2 sensor as well.
I would expect the DRB 3 scanner to indicate a skreem fault or not. From what I have watched on skreem video's, it seems the skreem fault does not kill the fuel pump as the engine will start momentarily twice. Cycle battery power and the same results. Don't think that would happen without a fuel pump start and I don't have a fuel pump signal.
Just thinking out loud
Wayne

 

Replaced my original repaired RCM with a brand new one two weeks ago, with no improvement.

 

skreem fault will kill the fuel pump as well as few other things. With access to a drb3/Xentry you check the singal between the antenna ring and see if the transponder is sending a proper signal as well. For the Rcm I seen new ones out the box bad... still work checking everything 2nd and even 3rd time

 

Thanks GannyX.
From your experience, would a skreem fault also remove authorization for spark plug operation?
I can fire the starter, start the fuel pump and engine runs fine. I drive the car daily.
If I can't locate the fault, I can eliminate the working components!
In the process of sourcing a DRB3 scan.
Wayne

 

What is your location? We try to help as for spark plug operation, it suppose to. I can check any ECUs on my bench, If you want me to check it. I dont mind

 

Gannyx, I'm in Fort Myers Florida. Many thanks for the offer to check the ECU. I'm leaning in the direction of the ECU being the culprit, but how would it go bad? Would like to take the advice you and "red 2005 convertible" have given, and see what a DRB3 scan would indicate. Sure would like to reserve the opportunity to have you check the ECU after the scan if I need it.
Regarding the skreem inhibiting the spark, is what I thought would happen. The fact that I can drive the car with all systems (except start function) working is why I have started looking more at the ECU, and not the more common RCM and skreem components. I will pop open that new RCM and check the solder connections if for nothing more than peace of mind. I carry my repaired one in the car.
Wayne

 

Since my last post I have done the following work;
The solder connections on my new RCM were checked and all look good.
While removing panels under the steering wheel to fix a sticky key issue, found an aftermarket theft device connected to cars wiring.
Long story short, was not the issue. Can't tell you how deflating that was.
Pictured below is the device that may be a mopar part, dealer installed.
Sticky key repaired, panels replaced.
I have tried to search out anyone who I thought would be able to do a DRB lll scan and the best I found was a Chrysler dealer in Venice, Fl who says he has a Tech trained on Crossfire who has an emulator that can talk to the car.
Was hoping that being connected to a DRB lll scanner it would have the functionality to turn on "fuel pump relay" or turn on "start relay" but have been advised, that is not in the scope of functions of the scanner.
Next, I will be rechecking the heater circuit for the O2 sensor against values provided for a good working circuit. If found defective, I think having GannyX check the ECU is next step before having a scan performed.
Wayne

 

If u text Miami Matt,, yes he is in Miami and goes anywhere to repair Crossfires & Mercedes,, he is in Naples as we speak working on something he has all the correct computers to fit your car. text him he will call u back, call & he will not answer,,, he might tell u what is wrong over the phone. jim
matt's phone # 786 877 5959

 

Thanks for the contact, I have contacted Matt
Wayne

 

Focusing on the issue of "check engine light on" with code P0161.
I was provided with some voltage readings for this sensor so I could measure against and compare.
Provided readings:
- O2 sensor 2/2 unplugged at sensor
- Key in the on position, engine not running
wire red/gn 12 volts (battery voltage) I measured 12 volts Voltage to heater circuit
yel/gn 0.45 v measured 0.44 v
brn 0.0 v measured 0.0
brn/gn 3.5 v measured 3.6 v PCM side of heater circuit

This would indicate the plug on the PCM is properly seated and making contact.
I reconnected the o2 sensor plug under the car and tucked all the wires in the proper location.
Check engine lamp still on, with code p0161
Then, accessed plug C211, passenger side foot area, connected one volt meter between pin 2 and ground
and a second volt meter on plug C211 between pin 4 and ground. This will be a direct comparison between both O2 downstream sensors (1/2 and 2/2)
Engine was cold.
Started the car.
Voltmeter connected to pin 4 showed a pulsing low voltage, at least as good as a digital volt meter can, while the voltmeter connected to pin 2 stayed at battery voltage (13 volts).
To me, I'm thinking the pcm is not pulsing the heater "on" for this sensor, but can't explain why the voltage measurements are near identical as a car with no "check engine " lamp.
Maybe @Gannyx or someone with more experience than I have could shed some light on this.
Wayne

 

grounding issue can causes this. unless drivers are bad

 

Help me understand this, doesn't the flag set to light the 'Check engine light' have to be reset before the light turns off (after a repair or change in state)?


.

 

02 fall under a self check so it supposed to turn cel off after it detects proper checks after few cranks or code reset

 

Thanks GX, always good to learn new things. Like it'll self reset after certain # of start/stop cycles/OBD reset). I wonder if enough cycles were complete, or if a reset was accomplished in the case I quoted?


.

 

Did you ever get this sorted out?

 

Gannyx, thanks for checking in.
No progress in resolving issues. Took your advice on the ground issue and installed a ground cable from the spare stud on the battery negative clamp to the engine/trans bolt identified in the forum, but it didn't correct the 3 circuits at fault.
Currently entertaining company for a week, then will get back troubleshooting.
Wayne

 

2 weeks ago I procured an ECU, then had a local guy clone the program from my original ECU to the replacement, installed it in the car and all the problems have been resolved.
I have driven the car many times since and every thing looks factory fresh. These 3 problems, ( no starter crank, no fuel pump, no o2 heater for sensor 2/2 are resolved.
I would like to thank all members who joined in with tips and suggestions on troubleshooting the problems. This has been quite an educational experience.

Wayne