K, so here's what I guess we can do, if car is in park and the brake is depressed (manual, parking brake set, clutch and brake depressed), you can start the car by pressing the button three times quickly (click click click) and it will turn on and start, if you do it again while the car is on but the engine isn't running in a manual and the brake and clutch are depressed, no parking brake needed to be set if the car is still on), it will refire the engine, and if you the car is in park, the brake is depressed (Manual, parking brake set and clutch and brake depressed) and you hold the button for 2 seconds, it will turn off.

Sound like a plan?

Key thing is to make this work for both the auto and manual and not be overly difficult to learn or use.

 

that sounds good to me as long as it clicks fast

 

From a usability standpoint, 3 rapid clicks seems far removed from the actual intent of the mod. After all, this is supposed to mimic the operation of push-button starters found in OEM applications and none of them require "3 clicks" of the starter button.

Although I'm not on the list to buy one, I would just recommend that a single push of the button starts the engine, along with the logic required to support all the safety interlocks (brake pedal, clutch pedal, etc.) Also, what happens if the user clicks the button 2 times, then waits one minute and presses the button again? Or what happens if the user clicks the button 3 times, but too slowly? Not everyone has a good gaming finger.

I think your original idea of a single click is best, if someone won't buy it because of perceived "safety issues", then make it programmable.

 

That was my thought but at the same time, we don't have the **** thing to turn like the OE ones do. The more I think about, the more I like a single longer click (1.5 seconds perhaps) but that's just me. This will be "smart enough" to know if the car is running or not and know how to proceed based on what the system sees.

the other thing and I just thought about this is to make it so that you can not turn the car off if it's a manual while the clutch is pressed in. this makes it so there is no way the car be shut off with it still in gear. this would be necessary for it to do remote start. I'm still gonna make people fax me a waiver to release me of any and all liability but this will make it safer for the end user. Don't want someone plowing into the car ahead of them when they go to start it in teh winter.

 

I'm in, but I would like to see a push button start option. You unlock the door, and the proximity of the key will allow the engine to start when you press the brake. The S2000 has a cheap and cool looking push button you can buy from their parts department.

 

This could be an option but you will lose your lighter socket in the process.

That being said, lets not let the be about the button we are going to press to make it start, ANY normally open momentary switch will work. Lets focus on the functionality portion of it.

 

Ok, I see your point about wanting to "turn the key to ACC" vs. actually starting the car. Maybe you want to inflate your tires and need power to the outlet.

Also I really don't like the idea of 3 "pokes" of the button to start the car. As was stated I think this moves very far away from the intent. Plus I will feel like I am priming a lawn mower, not trying to start a car.

I think holding the button for 1.5 seconds sounds like a good compromise. It is not too long but still gives you plenty of time to activate "ACC".

So that brings a question. If I have turned my car to ACC and want to start it a couple of minutes later do I just hold the button for 1.5 seconds or do I have to turn the car off and then hold the button.

I would say you should just have to "poke" the button to turn the car off but it should only turn the car off if it is in park.

 

well cant the acc button be turning the key to acc

 

I think that you should only make proximity unlocking (like when you aproach the car,or press button on dor, to unlock it) and then just start button in car.There is no need to change gear leaver or something like that. Plus that way you will be safe that you are not going to press the button and turn the car on or off acidentaly.I also think that you should be able to start and stop the car only if you press brake pedal,and it is in park (i am automatic owner . One press start one stop

 

Plus that way it would be cheaper. Proximity unlocking is MUST

 

That's the idea, All it's doing is making sure the car is in park and your foot is on the brake when you start and stop it. On a manual, you'd need to set the parking brake and hold in the brake but not the clutch. reason for this is that way the car cannot be in gear. That's the biggest thing that I'm worried about putting remote start in a manual is that someone starts it up and the car ends up driving into something or worse, someone. That's a whole lot of liability that I don't want to bear. The proximity thing is definitely part of the equation. Just want to find out if it needs to be something that can have a trigger so that if you are within a certain distance of the car, it will either automatically unlock or if it is setup so you walk up to the car, press a button and it unlocks. I personally want it the later way of the two but other want it to just be unlocked when you get up to it so that is something I want to make programmable. Other than that, it's all about getting enough people interested in this so we can start really moving forward with it. I also want to make the range of the remote for starting and locking/unlocking at least 200 feet so that you can start it from a decent distance.

 

but i can see alot of people placing the manual car in gear if they are on a hill or something and remote starting it and it launching forward on them, even if the brakes are on the car will still lurch forward if its in gear

 

Personally I really hate the interlock with the brake. The transmission is in park why the hell should I have to press the brake? The car is not going anyplace. I already have to press the brakes to put the thing in gear and it is not like the car will start in drive. Why make a take a step backwards and require an additional step?

 

Sans putting a gaudy switch on the dash that says turn me so you can use your push button start so I know you really want to start me or turn me off, I don't have any other way for the system to know if it was an accidental button press or if you really want to start your car or turn it off. Am I being unrealistic here? I'm trying to make this system work given the options I have. Every other car that has a push button start, you have to turn a **** for it to work and I don't want to have to go that route because at that point, what the difference between doing that and turning a key. I don't think it's too hard to have to press the brake to start it or turn it off. You don't slam your car into park while it's still moving, you come to a complete stop and then do it so you already have your foot on the brake. Same for when you start it. You have to push on the brake to put it in gear. I don't think that what I'm proposing is all that difficult to do.

Also, I'm working on limit switch setup to make sure the car will not start with it in gear. I can't post much about it right now as I haven't tested my approach but when I have it working, I will let everyone know. This is pretty much because I don't want someone suing me over putting their car into a tree or something.

 

Just make sure that when you sell something like that to other people,that you make a paper that they will sign, to make sure that you are not liable for any damage and so on.Plus i think that manual start button is bad idea. I think,for them proximity is only option.

 

proximity start is not a good idea. i dont want the car to start everytime i forget something in my car

 

You do realize that said "liability" waiver is maybe worth the paper it is printed on, right?

 

First off I am in support of your project. You have competing demands and are not going to be able to cover everything and make everyone 100% happy about every single aspect of the project.

Maybe missundertood the "starting" of the car. I thought that you were going to use the MB key-less-go shifter with integrated start button at least for the automatics. The proximity sensor and keyfob being required for security. Which is why my whole stance on the not having to use the brake.

Now it sounds like we are using the keyfob to do everything.

Which one is correct?

No matter the answer I still dislike having to press the brake pedal but it is far from a deal killer. It is a minor annoyance - like having to keep a key turned until a car starts instead of being able to turn and let go. Something you never really think about until you don't have to hold the key and we are talking about having to keep the key turned for less than a second.

 

The more I try to please everyone the more this whole thing is spiraling out of control. The fact is that I'm not going to make everyone 100% happy. I think taregt is right about the remote start aspect. I might just have to say no go on that all together. Reason being is that there is no way to make it so that someone with a manual couldn't somehow make it work even if it says its only for an auto and with this being marketed at both groups, that could be a liabilty nightmare should something happen. The push button start aspect of it is staying no questions asked. It's just as safe in an auto as it is in a manual. You can't start the car with the key unless the clutch is depressed so it shouldn't be any different if you replace teh key with a button. The part abotu having to hold the brake on both cars isn't goign anywhere either. The whole point is to make it completely keyless. This means not having to use the keys. I guess it would still be considered keyless if you had to turn a **** but not really. Here's the other thing that I totally over looked being I have a manual. Auto owners will need to figure out how to get past the key being turned on for you to move the shifter out of park but yet keep it so that you have to press the brake to shift it into gear. Hope this doesn't throw anyone too far off.

 

Here is what I came to last night. I was bored so I cut up a key and a set of ***** and here is the result. I really like this as it locks stock, can be reverted back to factory just by pulling it out and by making it only a key, it can't be used to start the car unless the factory key is used or the RFID tag is right next to the sensor. I'm having distance issues right now and need to get a more sensitive antenna but aside from that, this might end up just being something I can make from existing components. This probably won't make it cheaper, maybe even more expensive but I won't need it to be a really large group buy deal so we'll see what everyone thinks and what my total costs are when I have it functioning exactly how it's supposed to. I wished this f*ck*ng marvel of a phone Apple made actually could record video without having to spend $30 so for now, pictures will have to do.