Hey everyone

Thanks for your replies! Im talking about the countdown timer that tells you how many miles you have to go before needing to take your car in for service. I just went over 32k miles this weekend, and nothing yet. I said the hell with it, im changing my oil on Friday.

 

Got a letter in the mail from the dealer a month ago saying my crossfire was due service. A 2007 with 10,100 miles on it. Oil change back in December, no FSS indication, so I hadn't a clue what they said was due. Called the dealer and the service dept said oil change at 6 months or 5K miles, whichever occurs first. Last time they said to use the FSS. If they want to do it every 6 months, fine by me. $113.95 is the standard charge for the oil change, except I get oil changes and state inspections included free for life since I bought the car new there! I know I probably "prepaid" for all those oil changes and inspections when I bought the car. I just wish they'd get their story straight as to when they recommend an oil change!!

Brian

 

man you guys are lucky dealers up here ( canada) are retarded
A. it costs 180 for the oil change
B. they put the stupid service sticker on the window sayings change every 5000 KILOMETERS
C. they don't know how to reset the FSS
D. well they just **** me off at how retarded a chrysler dealer can be

enjoy your fancy american lifestyles where dealers know what they are doing i don't even trust them to change an air freshner anymore

 

I think if you look through the posts on this forum you will find that most Chrysler dealers in North America have little clue about these cars. Having said that there are some good ones. My dealer is a family owned business that I have dealt with for over 20 years. I have no complaints. The tech this time did put the 5,000 km sticker in the window and didn't reset the FSS My oil change costs me $120.00. I only have to do it once a year, no winter driving. So $120.00 no big deal. My Jeeps go in every 5,000 km at $35.00 a pop.

 

1) In 28 years doing component-level electronic repair, never heard of a potenziometer. A potentiometer is a variable resister, like a volume control.

2) Oil is not used as an insulator in transformers, it's used as a heat sink. Filling the cavity with oil allows heat to flow more freely from the core and windings (where it is generated) to the outer casting's cooling fins.

Now, it IS true that oil is a very poor conductor of electricity (otherwise, it would NOT be in a transformer- so you got that one right).

And I am unsure about how well we could measure the change in resistance with contamination. Can't say I'v read anything in the manual about this, the book implies that the light is turned on based on miles and time, only.

Not being a smartass, but had to comment. Now I'm gonnna go see if I can find anything on resistance changes with contamination.

 

Boy, not so sure that is really the way it is here, either! Haven't had to take mine in yet, but I seriously doubt we are any better off.

 

I did my oil change at Midas, they have mobil one, and i was out in 45 min at only 80 bucks. I dont do dealerships anymore, not after my experience with the service guy not knowing how to put down my top.

 

Eighty bucks ain't bad. Did they reset the FSS? What brand of filter? How many quarts of oil charged for the fill up?

 

Not sure why Stogey and danimal haven't called me on this. No BS. True story. How about you, pizzaguy?

 

Well, since you invited me to comment (gotta be careful, they are threatening to charge me for my posts now! )

Four things:

1) I would not say "oil is used as an insulator", oil is used as a heat sink in some respects. By putting oil in, you conduct the heat away from the windings and core to the outer housing/case/shell more effectively. Of course, if oil WAS NOT an insulator, we could not use it in this way - so I AM splitting hairs here - oil is an insulator, but it's not in there to insulate, but to conduct heat.

Do you agree?

2) I am just unsure about how effective it would be to use the resistance of contaminated oil to gauge it's level of contamination. I can't make up my mind about this one!!!! I suspect you are right ... I just don't know. I know no mechanical/automotive engineers, I am friends with two EE's who concentrate on RF, but that's it.

I've just never thought of this angle, and there have been so many surprise lessons with this car, I am unwilling to argue on this!

3) A potenziometer? Well, a Poteniometer is a variable resistor - the kind of variable resistor that takes the form of, say, a "volume control". Have never heard of (in 28 years of making a living as a component-level electronics technician, study for the CETsr, study for my FCC First Class or study for my ASEET) a potenziometer. Not saying that someone hasn't came up with the designation - just that it's news to me.

4) ""...when contaminated, the dirty oil does show an electrical potential across the supply sample.""
I know what you mean, you mean that clean oil is an insulator (again, we agree there), and that contaminated oil will conduct electricity, at least somewhat. This would mean that "... when contaminated, the dirty oil shows lower resistance than clean oil". The statements are not the same: I maintain that contaminated oil does not PRODUCE any EMF on it's own, but again, it MIGHT conduct - that is, show a lower resistance than clean oil.


That is all I have. I suspected the variability in the oil change intervals was calculated by counting the times at highway speed versus at idle - things like that. We all know that highway driving is better than city driving, and that idling normally does not show up on an odometer - but that it DOES age an engine.

But with the XF, it would be no surprise to me to find out that they have come up with some way to try to measure or estimate the contamination in the oil. THerefore, I wish to not aruge TOO STRONGLY against your post.

 

I wouldn't trust anything but mileage when it comes to oil changes, or if you don't drive much, then I would always change oil before storage...Mobil 1 can hold up to hard driving, high temps, very well, and could prolly be fine up to 10K between changes, but I would just as soon rely on mileage...I would recommend changing oil anywhere between 3-5K....I drive for a living and have oil samples taken between changes in the big truck. I change oil every 10K miles in the big truck, cummins motor, which can be every other month in most cases....most of the time, recommendations coming back from oil samples, are for higher mileage changes, but having good oil in there is always a good thing...

 

I sincerely apologize to dwightdmagee as his original thinking was more right than wrong. Quoted below is the information from the Student Reference Book and how this all works:

Oil Sensor
To produce an accurate determination of required oil change intervals, the Crossfire uses a sophisticated three-part oil sensor. It is used as part of the Flexible Service System (FSS). Calculations (such as oil level and time to next oil change) performed by this system can be observed in the vehicles odometer.
The oil sensor is located on the right side of the engine oil pan. The oil sensor uses a three-wire circuit, 5-volt VREF, ground and a 5-volt digital signal circuit. The oil sensor contains three sensors that act as one. It contains sensing components and circuitry to determine the level, temperature and quality of the engine oil. The processing chip within the oil sensor collects the information from these three inputs and processes it into a 0-5 volt square wave signal that it sends to the PCM over a dedicated circuit.
The PCM is located in the control module box. The PCM receives inputs from the oil sensor via a hardwired connection. It calculates the useful life of the engine oil based on the level, temperature and quality of the oil. This information is bussed over the Engine CAN C Bus to the IC.
Sensor Operation
The processing chip within the oil sensor receives a signal from a three-wire position sensor that uses a 5-volt reference and ground. The third (signal) wire is connected to the variable resistance wiper. As oil levels change the wiper is moved by a float and produces a signal that reflects the current oil level.
The processing chip within the oil sensor receives a signal from a Negative Temperature Coefficient (NTC) resister type temperature sensor. The sensor uses a 5-volt VREF and produces a volatage signal that is inversely proportional to the engine oil temperature.
The processing chip within the oil sensor receives a signal from an oil quality sensor. The oil quality sensor runs current through an oil sample and measures its voltage drop. Fresh oil is a good insulator and would produce a high voltage drop across two probes. As the oil wears out (viscosity thins out, becomes contaminated etc….) the oil becomes more of a conductor and voltage drop decreases.
Flexible Service System
A computer- and sensor- supported maintenance system called FSS allows for individual vehicle maintenance intervals up to 30,000 km (18,500 miles) and servicing at intervals between one and two years. It also notifies the driver if maintenance is needed sooner.
·FSS calculates and displays in the IC the distance remaining to the next regular maintenance service based on actual driving conditions and oil quality.
·The computer keeps a running track of driving conditions and calculates a load collective that correlates to wear and tear on the oil, using equivalency factors for hard driving, normal driving and light driving.
·The display shows the number of miles under present driving style until the service interval is reached.
·The computer also monitors oil and water temperature, RPM, vehicle speed, miles driven, load and oil added. It compares this data to a model that determines when it is time to change the oil.
·An engine oil level sensor measures the dynamic oil level during driving and also senses oil (thinning) dilution or high metal content. If specific limit values are reached, the driver is notified that an oil change is needed.
·The sensor is also able to receive the static oil level and notify the driver if it is too high or too low through the trip odometer in the IC.


As a footnote: I have scanned the entire Student Reference Book (all 244 pages) and have it in a .pdf file. The problem is - it is a large 30 MB file. It is too large to attach to any email program or to attach here. If someone with more knowledge than me in handling large files would like to assist in getting it posted somewhere, then I do not mind sharing.

 

Potenziometer is simply street Italian for poteniometer. No BS. True story.

 

Danimal.

First, I'd like a copy of that! My email will handle it, I THINK. wr8y at comcast dot net.

Second, I am so glad I didnt give dwight any crap about that "oil resistance" thing! I STILL have a hard time believing that they are basing oil change intervals on a resistance measurement of the oil, but... there it is, in print!

Oh, well, I have my Associates degree - better continue to the BSEE, huh? Maybe THEN I'd have known.

 

Yea, and here is your potentiometer:
The processing chip within the oil sensor receives a signal from a three-wire position sensor that uses a 5-volt reference and ground. The third (signal) wire is connected to the variable resistance wiper. As oil levels change the wiper is moved by a float and produces a signal that reflects the current oil level.

This reminds me.. time to go check the FSS reading.. back to the garage!