I DL'd the manual, and printed 8w-66-4 and 23-182. It all makes sense now. I think we have a good shot at getting this thing fixed once and for all. Thanks again Mark.

James

 

I'm having difficulties with my top, too...here is what happens:

When I unlatch the front, the windows don't go down, and the light on the switch blinks. If I lower the top manually, make sure it locks, etc., I can raise it automatically. When it gets to the end of the travel, and is ready to latch again, I get the same beeps from the switch that I did when I tried to lower it. Do I understand correctly that the windows are supposed to go down when you unlatch the top, and if not, the front sensor on the passenger side is bad?

 

Now for the fun part: Where, exactly, is that switch? How hard is it to get to, and is the car going to look the same after I get done! LOL!

 

Well, got in the car a few minutes ago, and tried the top...turned the handle, and the windows went down, but I still got no motion from the top...did get the beep!

 

Mark,

Per owner, we replaced the divider switch first, no help. Second, I removed the trunk lock solenoid assy. I pulled out the plunger, no luck, pushed the plunger in, no luck. I jumped the sensor plug and also added a ground to the locked sensor wire. Nothing.

Played with the partition position switch, and it started to work. Coincidental? Worked everytime since then. I took the old partition microswitch, cut the wires at the switch, jumped them together and plugged it back into the wire harness to temporarily eliminate the switch entirely. Time will tell.



Here is the other switch we found and it appears to be working properly:



The switch above is considered the "roof open switch" or "rear bow switch"?



Also the diagram shows a "tonnaeu cover switch". Any ideas how/where this is?

I have noticed this while working on this system. When you press the top down button, if you hear the trunk lock, the top will work. If the trunk is already locked, but you don't hear it try to relock it, it will not work. So something is sensing to not allow the module to lock the trunk to give the go ahead.

James

 

Hey Lee: I'm Ed Wheeler from Bellaire (BHS Big Red Clas of '58). I was just up there visiting family and took them all to Mehlmans for lunch. I am in Texas, Dallas Fort Worth area now for over 50 years. I own a 2005 SRT-6 Convertible, Black. Your name sounds very familiar. I think you may be my sister Sandy or my sister Cindy's age. Sandy lives in Jewett and Cindy lives in Shadyside.. I also have a brother Rick Wheeler (62) who lives here in this area. Hope to hear back from you,.

 

That switch is the rear bow switch. The roof open switch is in the windshield header to tell the control module when you have opened the top manually the initial 8". You can tell this one functions by the windows rolling down when you open the top latch and push it up. If the windows don't go down then that switch isn't functioning, or there are other problems.

 

I am off work sick today, still sick and kinda "out of it" mentally. When I get "upright", I'll be back - probably tomorrow.

For now:

I am sure the switch that tells the BCM the top has been unlatched from the windsheild is in the windsheild frame itself. If it does not work, I am confident the windows wont go down automatically. A failure of that switch would probably cause WEIRD stuff to happen if you lowered the top manually anyway, then pushed the button to get it to raise because the lack of an open indication might be confusing to the TCM.

James, we all know that divider switch is the cause of a LOT of problems. It would be nice to KNOW that you KNOW you have it fixed, but I don't think we can be so sure... but I'd like to think you have it fixed.

To the other poster, I hope this helps. Again, back when I can walk and not be dizzy and urpy.

 

I am printing a few pages of the manual now. Then, I'm headed outside to do something I was gonna do for the past year: Identify the location of all the switches and kinda put together a better synopsis of the flow of signals and fluid that makes the top move.

It is time (IMO) that I really understood the whole XF Top system, as a whole.

Back in a bit.



PS- I think the guy above is right, that is the rear bow switch. I believe the "roof open" is the one in the headliner that causes the windows to lower. But again, I'm headed outside (now that it is about dark - duh) to get started.

 

Ok, we are both wrong. It will take me some time (a few days) to put it all together, but I just printed the entire chapter (starting on page 23-454 and going to 23-482) on the Top System.

Here is how it goes:

1) You reach up and turn the handle to release the top from the windshield frame. This causes the "Latch Retainer Switch" to close, telling the BCM that the top is being unlatched. The BCM lowers the windows.

The roof is not considered to be open at this time, so if you push the button, it will beep at you.

2) You push the top up and away from the windshield frame. Now, that switch pictured in James' post is allowed to relax, which closes the switch. This is the "top open" switch, and it is in series with the divider switch in the trunk. If the divider is up, and both switches work, they, in series, apply a ground to the TCM's "ROOF/CARGO DIVIDER SENSE" input. Now the top is considered to be open AND the divider is considered to be up! This is important, the ROOF/CARGO DIVIDER indication is an "all or nothing" thing.

If you push the button now, the system will allow the TCM to lock the ELECTRIC lock on the trunk, then start the hydralic pump, activate valves and release the rear bow (the clamp thing that holds the window frame down to the deck lid). This is the beginning of the process of opening the top.

So, if you turn the handle, the windows go down, PERIOD. If they don't, the latch switch is bad.
If they do down, but the system beeps at you and won't run the pump, then:

1) You are going over 9 mph or,
2) The "top open" or "cargo Divider" switch is not closing or,
3) The car's battery voltage is too low to run the pump (not likely if the engine is running) or you have a fuse blown, or you have a bad pump (not likely) or some other odd wiring problem exists.

What wiring problem could it be? Well, there are many connectors in the wiring harness that makes up the top system. Corrosion at a plug/connector has caused ME some problems with fuel system electronics (like when I allowed water to drip down on the connectors on the top of the gas tank and it caused a fuel pressure "too high" indication from the tank.)

James, let me know how it goes!
Others reading this, you can post here or click my username by my avatar and choose the option of sending me a PM.

 

Can anyone help me please!!! Had my new top put on and now the top won't go down. The dealership sent it out to a upholstery guy to put the top on. Now they are saying a cable is broken that is keeping the top from going down and the upholstery guy said that when he replaced the top, he didn't touch the cable so he couldn't have broken it. Is this feasible? How can he replace the whole top without messing with the mechanisms (whatever they are) that make the top go up and down? Was this just a coincidence, because they are telling me it is?

 

A CABLE? A COINCIDENCE? BALONEY.

Maybe one of the wires to the Latch sensor or the Top Open sensor was knocked off or pulled apart during the work.

As to "cables":
There are two "cables" that keep the top under tension when it is up - I've never really investigated them because the problems we usually see are with the electronics. Anyhow, to replace the top he had to have opened the latch and released the tension to get the old fabric off and put the new on, and then he had to adjust the tension and align it properly.

This all sounds like B.S. to me. The dealership accepted your payment for the work being done - it is their responsibility to provide you with a working top. It is time for you to get angry and LOUD. Once the shop works on the top, they are "Married" to it. This is why it costs $2300 for a piece of material and some labor to put it on - there is plenty of "margin" in there.

It is time for them to finish the job.

That's my opinion.

Tell us the name of the Dealership.




Anyway, if you want help, then:

You said the top won't go down - describe what happens when you release the latch and hit the button. BE VERY SPECIFIC, what sounds do you hear (like beeps, motors running, etc.)

 

I hereby nominate pizzaman as the OFFICIAL FORUM TOP GURU.
Do I hear a second ?

 

Just learning all I can in preparation for the day when I press that button.... and NOTHING happens.

Like HELL I'm gonna pay someone $125 an hour to find a bad switch.

 

My back window started coming out like a lot of the others so contacted Chrysler. They sent me a copy of the letter I would need for the warranty to replace the top. I took it to Gossett Chrysler in Memphis on Monday but they told me I would be responsible for the rental car. No problem. I go to pick the car up on Thursday (my contact was Mike Hawkins), return my rental and get in the car. I decided to make sure the top was working correctly even though the top looked awesome. I push the button, windows go down and the BEEP. Nothing happens. After trying several times and double checking everything, still nothing. I go back in the dealership and tell Mike that my top won't go down. He replies, "Well I didn't even think to check it. I assumed the upholstery place checked it". I said, "I left my car here to have the top fixed and you called me to come get it without even making sure it worked"? SERIOUSLY! They had sent my car to a upholstery guy in Memphis to replace the top, that guys name was Mike also. He tells me to take it to the upholstery place and see if they could find the problem. I get to the upholstery place and after looking at it he tells me, " I can't find whats wrong with it. When I put the new top on, I put the top down 3 or 4 times and it worked. The last time I put it down, I must have broken something". So back to the dealership I go. I walk in and tell them that the upholstery Mike can't fix it. So dealership Mike says "Well do you want me to have one of our guys look at it"? I say "Yes, because my car isn't leaving here until it is fixed". After about an hour he comes back and says the guys who work on Crossfires can't get to it today, you will have to leave it here and this time we will pay the rental car fee. You can come get it on Saturday. Today, I receive a call saying that they found out a cable is broken and it can't be fixed until Tuesday because they had to order the part. But.....they want me to pay for the rental car and the cable because they talked to the upholstery Mike and he said that the work he did (changing the top) had nothing to do with the cable. The cable must have just broken because my car is so old. Yeah, its 2005 with less than 30 thousand miles on it. And I have NEVER had a problem with the top going up or down. So by the time Tuesday gets here, I will be out a rental car fee for 8 days, gas for 3 trips to Memphis (300 miles or more round trip) and 3 days missed work. And I kind of have my doubts if they even know for sure how to fix it.

 

If the speakers BEEP, it is indicating an electrical indication that the top isn't ready to do down. I know of NO sensor that measures the tension on the two "stress cables", therefore this has to be a wiring problem.

I suspect that when the part comes in, it still won't work, but I could be wrong. I don't believe the upholestery shop has the electrical diagnostic tool for that car, the dealership does. Hence, they found the problem with the diagnostic tool. So, again, this is electrical.

And you can't tell me it is a coincidence. Sure, MAYBE, since these tops do sometimes give problems (as you have learned if you have read this forum very much).

It probably did work when it left the upholstery shop, but again the dealership took their cut for this - and you paid THEM not the other guy. It is common business practice that the dealership is responsible for ALL of this, IMO.

I personally will avoid that dealership, but then, I am a long way away.


It is very common to have third parties replace hte top, not the dealer. But again, only the DEALER will have the diagnostic tool that tells them what sensors are not indicating proper position, or a bad sensor.

I think a letter to Chrysler about this is in order. They are NO "five star" (or whatever they call it) dealership. Handling problems like this is part of being in business, and to put you thru crap is poor, poor business practice.

 

My back window started coming out like a lot of the others so contacted Chrysler. They sent me a copy of the letter I would need for the warranty to replace the top. I took it to Gossett Chrysler in Memphis on Monday but they told me I would be responsible for the rental car. No problem. I go to pick the car up on Thursday (my contact was Mike Hawkins), return my rental and get in the car. I decided to make sure the top was working correctly even though the top looked awesome. I push the button, windows go down and the BEEP. Nothing happens. After trying several times and double checking everything, still nothing. I go back in the dealership and tell Mike that my top won't go down. He replies, "Well I didn't even think to check it. I assumed the upholstery place checked it". I said, "I left my car here to have the top fixed and you called me to come get it without even making sure it worked"? SERIOUSLY! They had sent my car to a upholstery guy in Memphis to replace the top, that guys name was Mike also. He tells me to take it to the upholstery place and see if they could find the problem. I get to the upholstery place and after looking at it he tells me, " I can't find whats wrong with it. When I put the new top on, I put the top down 3 or 4 times and it worked. The last time I put it down, I must have broken something". So back to the dealership I go. I walk in and tell them that the upholstery Mike can't fix it. So dealership Mike says "Well do you want me to have one of our guys look at it"? I say "Yes, because my car isn't leaving here until it is fixed". After about an hour he comes back and says the guys who work on Crossfires can't get to it today, you will have to leave it here and this time we will pay the rental car fee. You can come get it on Saturday. Today, I receive a call saying that they found out a cable is broken and it can't be fixed until Tuesday because they had to order the part. But.....they want me to pay for the rental car and the cable because they talked to the upholstery Mike and he said that the work he did (changing the top) had nothing to do with the cable. The cable must have just broken because my car is so old. Yeah, its 2005 with less than 30 thousand miles on it. And I have NEVER had a problem with the top going up or down. So by the time Tuesday gets here, I will be out a rental car fee for 8 days, gas for 3 trips to Memphis (300 miles or more round trip) and 3 days missed work. And I kind of have my doubts if they even know for sure how to fix it.

 

attorney time my friend...both are at fault. They are just passing the buck. You took the car in working, and it needs to leave working regardless on what broke. BS....

 

Back to square one. The owner told me he operated the top up and down at least 5 times more the same day he left with no problem. Parked the car for one week, the partition switch is still bypassed, the top won't work again.

Open the latch, the windows go down. Hit the switch, beeps. Trunk is not locking.

Not sure when I will be able to get back to it, but I still am looking for answers to try.

James

 

Sir,

It sounds like we have a similar issue...have you tried putting your top down manually, then putting up automatically? Mine works that way...