I was helping out another forum member at my house today with his roadster. And he mentioned that he has trouble with getting the top to go down at times. And of course it would not go down today. I know about the microswitch on the partition. It seemed to be working but I adjusted the lever a bit to be absolutely sure it was activated. Still no luck.

Then I unplugged the microswitch and jumped (bypassed) the plug with a piece of temporary wire. Closed the trunk lid and still no luck.

I still am not sure when the partition is in place, should the switch be open or closed (electrically)?

Is anyone aware of any other safety switches that must be in a certain position for the top to open? After playing around a bit with the partition and other things, it suddenly began to work.

When you pop the front latch, the windows go down automatically so I assume the switch in the windshield frame is good.

Any suggestions here would be greatly appreciated.

James

 

Boy !!!!!! James wish i could help , mine has not done anything like that , will help and see if i can find somthing on this , may need imfo one day myself

 

James .....Check this item out one eBay. I don't know how to do a linky. Item # 300471140584 (over-center switch). Same seller has the pesky micro-switch. Hopes this helps a little. Howard

 

I'm having troubles also. When the temperature is around 80 degrees, I have problems. If the top is up..the "red led" on the consol flashes, and top will not move. Same thing happens if the top is stored in the trunk. The other day the deck lid opened,but top would not move and the lid would not close. After several hours, parked in my garage, the lid then closed when I activated the switch.
Then I tried to reopen the top. The deck lid opened and the top raised straight up and then quit moving. A day later, the hydraulic pressure dropped off and the deck lid came in contact with the canvas top. I manually raised the lid and the top droped into the trunk. I released the lid and it droped down to the body. I did have to apply hand pressure to get it to latch. The trunk would not open after that. I took the car to my local Chrysler dealer because I have the extended warranty. They tell me there was no error codes so they raised the top by activating the switch on the consol. Now the temperatures are in the 50's and they can not get the top to malfunction. Hopefully there is someone out there that has an answer to my problem Flustrated in ST. Clairsville, OH

 

I could only put this down to a faulty Microswitch working intermittently. I would buy another, as they are only cheap on E-Bay, I always have a new spare available. I am told, there is also a Microswitch associated with the windscreen lock handle, whether this may be faulty and only working intermittently????

 

That is what I keep thinking.

I wish he was closer, I'd like to take a shot at fixing it - ever since my victory over my trunk lid that refused to open and the fuel tank pressure error code, I've been waiting for MINE to challenge me again.
(And let's not forget being towed home because the ignition lock stuck in "OFF")


These wonderful little cars can be as frustrating as dealing with a WOMAN.
And just as rewarding.

 

I had this happen to my 07 where it would not go up it just beeped. I checked the partition and it was ok still nothing. I got back in shut the car off took the key out for a few seconds and restarted it. I then tried it and it worked first time and I don't think it has done it again. I asked a crossfire tech what the beck and he said yeah sometimes you have to do that for the computer and sensors to run their checks and reset. I hope this helps someone.

 

TerryR...Thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my problem. I have couple question...hope you can answer.
As an elecrtician for 40 yrs. the microswitches i am most familar with are mechanical devices and normally are not temperature sensitive. Could the devices (microswitches) used in the Crossfire Roaster top be solid state devices that may be temperature sensitive. Do you know if they are "OR" or "NOR" switches?
I know ther is a sensor or switch in the trunk that is activated when the devider(cardboard panel) in raised to allow the top to safetly be stored in the trunk.
Where is the windscreen lock handle? Is this the handle you turn to unlach the top to put it down?
Are there switches in the windshild framework? What about the deck lid?

 

I believe the "windscreen" sensor refers to the sensor in the windshield frame that tells the TCM/BCM that you have disengaged the top from the frame. And yes, that is the handle he is referring to.

The sequence (as much as I can remember) goes something like this, assume your top is up or closed:
(I have GOT to get to bed... this may contain errors, but you get the idea)

You are parked and you reach up and turn the handle and disengage the top from the windshield frame.
The sensor in the frame sees this, and it's signal to the BCM causes the BCM to lower both windows.
OBVIOUSLY if you can release the top from the windshield and the windows don't go down, you have a bad sensor up there!!!!


You then hit the button, for anything to happen further ALL of the following has to be true:
1) You are going less than 9mph.
2) The divider in the trunk is deployed. (And that sensor has indicated such.)
3) The trunk lid is COMPLETELY closed. (And that sensor has indicated such.)

At this point, hitting the button causes (and you can hear this if it is quiet around you) an electric lock to activate in the trunk, this locks the trunk so no idiot can open the trunk in the 23 seconds it takes to raise or lower the top. The electric cam moves in about 2 seconds. When the sensor in this mechanism tells the BCM/TCM that the trunk is now locked, the hydraulics start to activate. There will be no hydraulic motor operation until this point!

The pump starts, the latch holding the window to the lid is released and valves move such that the cylinders are activated to lift the window. Once sensors indicate the window is up all the way, the hydralics release the deck latch and the cylinders are operated to open the lid.

When the lid is open all the way, sensors on the cylinders tell the TCM - it commands the pump to stop, and valves are then activated so that, as the pump restarts, the top itself moves into place (that is, moves into the storage area).

Next, sensors on THOSE cylinders tell the TCM that they are moved all the way. Now, the pump is stopped and more valves activate - the pump is restarted, and the lid cylinders are moved to close the lid.
The latch is activated hydraulically to lock the lid closed.

The electric lock is reversed to the unlocked position in the trunklid.
The system beeps and you are done.

The reverse happens when you put the top back up, of course.
So you see how many, many sensors there are. I have not experimented to see if the top will stop moving mid-stream like it does with you if any of these sensors fail, but I am SURE the one for the divider WILL cause the system to freeze (this is why we suspect it).

As to the one in the windshield, I don't know. Same for the one in the electric trunk lock.

Also, I am unsure of just all the interactions between the BCM and TCM, I DO know they work together to make all of this happen.


I do not believe they are electronic sensors, it is my position that they are mechanical switches. I also believe they are closed in their "ok to move" position, but am unsure. I DO know the sensors on the electric lock are plural. That is, there is one sensor to tell the system it is fully unlocked and one to tell that it is fully locked.

There is a good description of the sequence in the service manual. It includes a schematic of the hydraulic lines, pump, cylinders and valves. You can ONLY fix this yourself if you have a basic knowledge of how it operates so that you know what might be missing from the puzzle!

The service manual is hard to read (like so many auto manuals) but as you read and inspect the car, you will "get it".


I still say it's the divider switch, windshield switch or electric cam lock switch(es). Either that, or you are trying to move the top while moving too fast - but you've had the car too long for that to be it.

 

Thanks for all this information. You have been very helpfull.

 

I may be wrong, but i think that there is also a micro-switch somewhere in the frame, where it hinges, as when I first got my car there was a TSB, about re-adjusting it .........could be worth a try ?

 

Thanks for submitting this information

 

OK Mark thanks for the info and let me go over my scenario again if you can help.

1. When the latch is released and top pushed up, the windows go down automatically. Do you agree the microswitch in the w/s frame is functioning correctly? I do.

2. The microswitch on the partition panel is correctly adjusted and seems to be working properly. Also I disconnected the switch at the connector, jumped the plug over at the wire harness end with a paperclip to bypass the switch. Also I left it 'open' and tried it. No dice either way. So far I don't expect this to be the problem but a new switch has been ordered.

3. I need some advice/information on the trunk lock sensor you speak of. How can I test it, bypass it temporarily, etc....

Any additional information would be greatly appreciated.

James

 

Ok, on point 3, it gets complicated. I know the assembly is there, as I have transplanted the assembly as described in my Trunk Lid Jammed thread....

I'll have to go thru the manual and see what I can find. But you CAN remove the trim from the lid, take the assembly out and inspect it! I remember the cam being easy to move, you could let it hang, manually move it to the locked position and see if you get anywhere. There is an electric solenoid that moves it back and forth, but I am sure I remember being able to move it myself.

This cam, if it does not pull back far enough, will indicate that it has - but it hasn't. This prevents opening the trunklid! I wonder if it can fail such that it does not go far enough to indicate a lock (which could be your problem!) Here is an idea - release the latch and IN A QUIET ENVIRONMENT see if you can HEAR just as you press the button to lower the top, the cam moving back there. If there is NO sound and NO movement, then the thing isn't moving and indicating a lock, so the top won't move.

ALSO, when you hit the button, not only should you hear something, but after hitting the button THE TRUNK LID SHOULD BE LOCKED! If it is not - well, THERE is the probllem, the thing isn't locking, so it isn't providing a lock indication and no wonder you can't make the top move!

ALways remember, the procedure is:

Unlatch the handle.... sensor tells BCM to lower windows and "turn on" the top movement system. (The light in the switch comes on). It does not matter if the lid or divider sensors indicate ANYTHING at this point - unlatch the latch and the windows DO move and the switch DOES light.

IF the divider switch is closed, and the trunklid is fullyclosed (don't know where THAT sensor is), you hit the button, the electric cam moves to lock the trunklid - and when it indicates this, the motor starts running and away you go!

Of course, with the interactions of the BCM moving the windows, the speed sensors telling the BCM that you are stopped or going slow enough, and the handshaking between the TCM and BCM, there are lots of things that COULD go wrong - but usually, it's a mechanical switch or cam problem. NOT some failed module.

I'll spend some time with the service manual at bedtime tonight and see what else I can find. Figuring out the wiring of the electric lock AND finding the sensor that indicated a fully closed trunklid are our priorities right now....

 

Thanks again gentlemen

 

Download the SRT service manual.

Go to page 1812 (also 8W 66 4) and see what I see!

See the little box "Trunk Latch Assembly"? As motor "M" moves one war or the other, the switch puts a ground on BR/VT wire to indicate a locked condition OR a ground on BK/VT to indicate unlock.

So, if you take the trim out, I THINK you need to remove the assembly to get to the connector - but don't remember for sure. I remember the harness, I think it is exposed and you could cut the loom away and stick a sharp probe in there and see what voltage to ground you have. Anything over 2 or 3 volts indicates a "non-groundl" and a voltage of less than .5 volt indicates a ground.

OR.. we could go to connector C1 pin 21 and pin 22 of the TCM and measure the voltages there.
Now, all I have to do is find out where the TCM is located in the car!

Gonna roll over and get to sleep - I'll be back after work tomorrow, and after running to see my invalid sister.

EDIT: If you can get to the connectors on the lock OR the TCM, you should have a ground on ONE Of the two pins. That is, zero volts on ONE of the pins. If the unlock is grounded, there is the problem.

If the LOCK is grounded, we have some other problem.

If NEITHER is grounded (that is, there is more than 2 or 3 volts on both pins) then the lock assembly is not working right OR the ground wire to that switch is off, so it can't pass a ground to the module.

Voltmeter readings tell all. But if you just ground the "locked" line, I am afraid that IF there IS a ground on the UNLOCKED, you will confuse the module and it probably won't do anything but beep.

Gotta have voltmeter readings OR you disconnect both the unlock and lock wires going to the TCM and GROUND the lock one. THAT should make the thing work, but without volt readings, you wouln't know just what the problem is.

GOTTA find where the top module is.... I bet it's in the well next to the pump. But I hope not.

Gotta find that... gonna be hard to find that in the manual....

 

Thanks good friend....sleep well !

 

Page 3730 shows the connector on the locking assembly. You could unplug this connector (3 pin, C1) and jumper pin 3 to ground and close the trunklid.

This will give a locked indication to the TCM and if the thing works, you know the problem is in the lock mechanism or the ground wire to that connector!

Ok off to bed........................

 

Thanks Mark, we will be at it Monday morning, weather permitting! James

 

Just got home from the Spring Big Event. Headed to bed, I'll be tied up with work all day but if I can help, call me. If I can, I'll answer the phone! Encrypted against the spammers: six7ate ate77 tufornine3