Nope; Miami, FL

 

You own a Gulfstream III ?
Guess not, or you wouldn't be trying to do this yourself .......

 

ala_xfire, now I understand what you meant by the HINT. Doing the cylinder rebuild job correctly is actually pretty involved. We rebuild cylinders for many different brands, and that allows us to be quite efficient. We simply price the rebuild service based on how much effort and material it takes on our end, as opposed to how much more we could make because the Crossfire cylinders are no longer manufactured. If we asked too much for the service, then we would eventually have competition cropping up. I prefer being fair and consistent in pricing.

It is awesome that you are considering getting a DIY for cylinder removal and replacement done - this would be a big help for everyone except shops and dealers. Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Klaus

Top Hydraulics | Rebuilt and Upgraded Convertible Top Cylinders, Pumps, Hydraulic Lines - Top Hydraulics, Inc

 

Yep, that is the best way to proceed. You could start with the pump and just make sure to remember that you will have to deal with the cylinders sooner or later.
The removal and re-installation is pretty straightforward - let me know if I can be of any assistance. You are welcome to call or email me if you get stuck.

Klaus

Top Hydraulics | Rebuilt and Upgraded Convertible Top Cylinders, Pumps, Hydraulic Lines - Top Hydraulics, Inc

 

OK, I believe I am ready to remove the hydraulic pump assembly. It seems pretty straight forward. I will proceed cautiously .... and report results.

I note that, when the time comes, installation of the pump assembly will require fluid (Pentosin CHF-11S) as well as Loctite 270 and a torque wrench (A torque wrench is also specified when installing cylinders, as are new retainers and o-rings when reinstalling hydraulic lines, not to mention drilling out and later putting in rivets in some cases). Can I expect to find the supplies at my local Advance Auto Parts store? Is the torque wrench a necessity? If so, what particular wrench should I look for? Sears a good source? In regard to cylinder removals and installation, I have no clue how to install a rivet or what tools and supplies are required.

 

Hand riveter.. not a problem.. insert long stem into tool.. "rivet" flush into hole and squeeze till stem pops off.

 

Remember if you can't do it you can always rely on Rosie the Riveter.

 

Didn't you used to date her?

Original ‘Rosie the Riveter’ girl, now 93 years old, is still working on a California assembly line

More than 70 years after she started her job, Elinor Otto is still riveting away at a Boeing plant in Long Beach. The 93-year-old has no plans to stop.

 

I just found this thread, the first posts were disturbing, but...

I see you have come to your senses - you are not talking about going to a dealership anymore.

 

The removal is going allright, but I have stopped just before the last step when the hydraulic lines (including the cover plate) are detached. Close inspection of the reservoir shows that the level is below the minimum, contrary to what I had thought a few days ago.

This makes me think the more likely cause of my top problem is leaky cylinders and perhaps not the hydraulic pump. Thus I am wondering if I should reinstall the pump after adding fluid to the max level and see if the top operates normally. Since I have not broken the integrity of the lines, this would be a fairly simple task. If so,then the problem is not the pump, agree?

Please give me your advice. Should I test the pump with proper fluid level? If it works normally, should I still send the pump in for analysis?

I will post pics from the removal process so far in another post (actually the next two posts).

 

Convertible Top Hydraulic Pump Assembly removal pictures (part A):

 

Convertible Top Hydraulic Pump Assembly removal pictures (part B):

















This little insulating wrap came off from somewhere on the pump assembly (I think) when I lifted it out of the well. Any advice as to where it should go? Looks like it might have had a wire tie around it:

 

g3air,

thanks for the removal pics. It's pretty straightforward once you have rolled up your sleeves, isn't it? Allow me to point out a few details.

It appears that the few tools used were:
1) Flat screwdriver to remove two-piece plastic tabs that hold panel in place (a bent fork or a panel removal tool work well for this, too). Thanks for showing the tab details - pull out the inner part first, then the outer (barbed) portion pulls out easily from the panel.
2) T-15 torx wrench or socket for removal of the soft top controller from the pump frame (making sure the negative battery pole gets disconnected first)
3) 10-mm socket to unbolt the pump frame from the chassis (and you will use the same to separate the pump from the frame before you send the pump to Top Hydraulics for testing and overhaul/upgrade)

You will also use a 4-mm or 5-mm Allen wrench to remove the manifold plate from the hydraulic pump that holds all the hydraulic lines. Simply unscrew those Allen bolts, and pull up a little on each single line. No worries, the hydraulic lines will stay confined to the plate; they are secured to the plate via circlips. Pulling on each line is only needed because it can require a lot of force to pull all lines at once.

You mentioned a torque wrench and loctite earlier. Frankly, I don't think you need either for re-installation. The threads still have some loctite on them for friction, and tightening 10-mm hex bolts isn't rocket science. You want to watch out not to over-tighten the Allen bolts on the pump's aluminum body, but they are fairly long and they take a good amount of torque for you to ruin their threads.

You also noted that your fluid level is a bit below minimum. It is barely below minimum, and the fluid intake from the pump to the reservoir is at the bottom of the reservoir. Thus, I do not believe that the fluid level is the cause of your sluggish top movement. Go ahead and send us the pump. Since I suggested this here, we wouldn't charge you anything for testing and return shipping if the pump was okay... :-)

Lastly, I hope that the riveter isn't scaring anyone. It is only needed for the two rear bow cylinders, and I hope that ala_xfire can take the scare-factor out of that portion of the cylinder removal once he has created his pictoral DIY for removal of all seven cylinders.

Klaus

Top Hydraulics | Rebuilt and Upgraded Convertible Top Cylinders, Pumps, Hydraulic Lines - Top Hydraulics, Inc

 

Klaus et al,

Thanks for the answers and guidance. I will go ahead and complete the removal.

FYI, there was one screw-on fastener (not mentioned in the service manual) that needs to be taken off to complete the removal of the panel.

Any thoughts on the insulating wrapper (I mentioned on last picture)?

Wondering how messy the rest of the removal will be .....

One thing for sure - the three Allen bolts holding down the manifold plate are a bear to remove due, I believe, to the locktite used (red in color).

Have to pause here for today due to rain showers (no garage)

 

g3air, that wrapper does not look like a vital part. We have never received a pump with such a wrapper on it. Judging from the red paint, it has been there when the car was originally painted, before the pump was ever installed.

There will hardly be any fluid coming out of the hydraulic lines at this point - just a few drops. You may want to stick them all in a ziplock bag that you tie around the lines once you have them removed from the pump, to keep everything clean.

Klaus

Top Hydraulics | Rebuilt and Upgraded Convertible Top Cylinders, Pumps, Hydraulic Lines - Top Hydraulics, Inc

 

Pictures will follow. I am amazed the pump was running at all or had not failed sooner, as you will see by the amount of sludge in the hydraulic fluid.

Sure hope I can get this thing back together when the time comes. Hence so many pictures. It was not a cake walk ....

Now to review the TopHydraulics instructions for shipping. Have to say, the checkout procedure on the TopHydraulics site leaves a lot to be desired ...

 

Congrats on getting the pump out! Was there any one step in the removal process that you found particularly difficult? It would be great to have brief comments with each of the photos... :-) Have you done a lot of DIY repair on your car before?

Send us a message or give us a call if you have trouble with checkout on our website - we will be happy to walk you through it or to take your info over the phone. Phones are staffed work days from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. Pacific Time.

For shipping, please drain out the fluid from the pump, wrap the pump in a garbage bag or two, and box it up. If you are shipping the pump without the mounting frame, then it will fit comfortably into a USPS Priority Mail Large Flat Rate Box. Priority Mail makes it cross country in three days and is quite affordable. Buffer the package well inside, ideally double box (stuffing one box of the same or smaller size into another), and tape up well.

Sludge in the fluid is obviously not good for the system. It wears out the pump (we will probably replace the pump's guts), might even lead to failure of the pump's electric motor, and is a catalyst for more oxidation inside the system (i.e., the original cylinder seals decay faster). Are you living in a hot climate?

I have some thoughts on a fairly simple hydraulic fluid flushing procedure as preventative maintenance - will bounce that off the forum in a separate post. g3air, you have the opportunity to manually "pump" all the remaining (dirty) hydraulic fluid out of the seven hydraulic cylinders by cycling the top up and down manually a couple of times. While you are moving the top manually, the cylinders will be pushing the fluid out of the lines that you just removed from the pump and will be sucking in air instead. That also makes the cylinder removal less messy. Don't worry about cycling the two locks, as those cylinders displace very little volume. Extend and retract the shaft on the tonneau cover cylinder a couple of times, though.
The hydraulic system is self venting, which means it will start up even with air in the cylinders, as long as there is enough fluid in the pump.

Klaus

www.tophydraulicinc.com

 

Sludge? Where would that come from?

I find that rather troubling.

Klaus - what do you have to say about that?

 

It usually starts with very small parts flaking off the slowly decaying seals. Sludge in the hydraulic system is formed by very tiny, oxidized particles. Lots of sludge in the system turns into an abrasive paste that will accelerate the formation of more sludge simply by grinding on the cylinder walls, and that changes the chemistry of the fluid a little. It is very rare that the abrasion on the cylinder walls is seriously threatening the longevity of the cylinders - the main problem lies in plugging the pump, wearing the pump pistons, and accelerated decay of the original seals in the hydraulic cylinders.

I have seen ten year old systems with perfectly clear fluid in them, and five year old systems that were a mess. The main factors are climate and amount of use. Hot environments accelerate chemical reactions. The original seals in the cylinders hydrolize and oxidize. Nothing can stop that. Top Hydraulics' seals are many times less sensitive to environmental factors, which makes me extrapolate our useful seal life to some 30-50 years in most cases.

In extreme cases with a lot of humidity in a hot climate, there will also be condensation inside the reservoir as the fluid level changes. Water in the fluid is bad news. There is a little room for water to accumulate on the bottom of the Crossfire pump reservoir, but not much. An important characteristic of the roadster top hydraulic fluid is that it does not suspend water in it. It makes water sink to the bottom of the reservoir. Having a mixture of steel and aluminum in the hydraulic system, water inside the cylinders can wreak havoc, if it ever makes it that far.

There is nothing wrong with using your top a lot. Just flush your fluid every three to five years in hot & humid climates to every ten years in mild climates. As I said, I will address a possible fluid flushing procedure in a separate post (as time permits).

Klaus

Top Hydraulics | Rebuilt and Upgraded Convertible Top Cylinders, Pumps, Hydraulic Lines - Top Hydraulics, Inc

 

Make a note (or a picture) of which wire pair goes where ....