Hey all!

I know this is off topic so I hope I'm asking in the right area of the forum...

We just finished (less than 6 months ago) a rebuild on my 302 in the 67 Mustang... it had less than 40 miles on it when it chewed up the cam. We took the precautions to break in the Comp Cam correctly (keep the RPMs near 2k~2.3k, let the block get warm to properly seat the valves etc) and then we noticed what sounded like lifter noise. So we removed the valve cover and noticed that the exhaust rocker on the #4 cylinder was loose during part of the cycle (we manually turned the crank). The rocker was properly torqued and the lifters were new with the cam... rod was ok and the valve spring was also in good condition (didn't break, which is the second thing we checked after the rocker).

After a week of discussion with a number of the "old hot rodders" (that's what the more senior members of my car club call themselves lol) and the mechanic (he has around 40 years of engine builds under his belt and this is a new one to him as well) the best, yet least logical reason is that the lack of ZDDP caused premature cam wear thus causing the 1 tappet (and 4 others to start) to flatten/round off completely. None of us were aware of the massive federal mandated change in the formulation in the more conventional oils, let alone the need to actively add ZDDP additives to the oils (they are from the old school train of thinking where you do not need to add stuff to the fuel, oils etc unless it is proven necessary through experience or research).

I guess what I'm curious is if anyone here knows of, or has had something like this happen to them. I bought the Muskrat to learn as much as possible about automotives starting with the more traditional yet semi easy to work on (few things cannot be taught better than by hands on, IMHO), and it's in part why I bought the crossfire, something modern to work on while I continue work on the muskrat.

Thanks in advanced... I'll get some photos up when I can, there is a good one of the chewed up lifter sitting next to a good one.

-Tim

 

Here is one of the articles that the local "speed shop" suggested to us when we contacted them about the cam we had bought there... http://www.compcams.com/Base/pdf/Fla...chBulletin.pdf

Some other articles that have been mentioned from the hot rodders in my club... I'm just concerned that this is a growing trend to remove the more "classic" cars off the road... From what little I do know (beyond the basics that are common to all gasoline engines) about the modern automotive technology, vehicles such as our Crossfires are not going to be affected much if at all by the change in oil formulation... is this a correct assumption?

http://www.aera.org/ep/downloads/ep1/EP012008_8-16.pdf

http://clubs.hemmings.com/potomacram...OilArticle.pdf

http://www.circletrack.com/enginetec...s/viewall.html

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/shel...ms-107541.html

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...echnology.aspx

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...h/viewall.html

After reading these I gather that the assumption we have is correct, but I tend to err on the side of caution and I believe that the membership here has a great wealth of collective knowledge (this much is very apparent in the group buys that I have seen and the stuff that rudy and others have come up with the ipod kit et al)... again thanks in advance -Tim

 

Well, as an old hot rodder, I know today's lubricants aren't what they used to be, but, I do believe they can still do the job. I had one bad cam in my days of playing with cars. That cam was never heat treated properly. The production run just missed one. Pure and simple. Oh, we went through a lot of finger pointing, but my father worked in a large machine shop, and his best friend ran the heat treating dept. Long story short, the cam never met hardening specs, thus wearing the lobes immediately down. You can still buy bad parts. Just my take on it. But, I am sure you replaced it already.

 

oledoc2u,

Thanks for the reply, that is one other option we had considered. I forgot to mention this in my first post, the block previously belonged to another member of the club and he had rebuilt the block and put the cam in and it ran well for about 100 miles then he decided he wanted a 351 Cleveland (LOL! lots of motor for his 53 ford truck) so the motor was left sitting for a year or so at the garage. We rebuilt it for the muskrat and did mic and whatever other stuff the mechanic might have done while I was away to which he said it was okay to use since it had such limited use and at 22 money tends to be a major issue. I mentioned that I was concerned that since the cam wasn't new that this might have been the issue (the lifters were new), but he made a good point. In S. NM there are a lot of strange... mechanics. They will do stuff that makes no sense yet works for years and years all the while another mechanic will do stuff "by the book" and it fails the next month.

Either way it’s strange, or def not something I needed at this point, but like the Crossfire I do have an attachment to the muskrat especially with the amount of wrench time I've put into her. Yep we got the new crane cam in on Friday... if it happens again even with the comp cam oil additive et all, then I suppose that rules this theory out.

- Tim

 

I was speaking of a new cam. An old cam with new lifters, in some cases, can cause this as well. New lifters material, can be harder than a worn cam. I would venture to say, the cam had a problem from the get go. I never mis-matched cam and lifters. Just me. Always went with new push rods, hardened valve keepers, and roller rockers. Always replaced the nylon geared timing gear, went roller chain... If you have her apart, why not do it right? But, hey, you do what you have to do with what you have. I understand that. It just doesn't always work. My buddy, who was my boss when I was 19, had a screming 302 Mustang. Pull the wheels Mustang. I have seen the insides of that engine many times over my younger years. Real competitor. I was trying to make a big block Camaro keep up...lol...

 

That is why I just bought 5 gallons of Mobil 1 5-W40 Turbo Diesel Truck oil. It has more ZDDP. It cost me $114. I use it in all my engines including my MG with flat tappets, my small block Ford, and It's overkill in my Crossfires. Gary

 

That’s what I mentioned to him (the mechanic) then... and really the extra 250 (at most) for a new cam wouldn't have broke the bank then... long story short I honestly believe he didn't think it would have been an issue, and there was a lot of "extra stress" that was making the build as prompt as possible, he was well aware of it from my "venting" (the joys of family swooping in at the last to try and "be family" before one passes; and check the will for inheritance...) Then there is the issue of her being the only thing I actually own outright and have yet to drive for more than a week or two before something else breaks... the previous owner was a real winner, the list of repairs would take a long time to mention but then again I wanted to have something to learn with, and I believe I'm still learning

Oh well, chalk it up to experience lol best and really the only way to look at it I guess

If only I did not have 3:00 gears in the back I *might* have a semi screaming car, but it is a good cruiser which is at the end of the day more important to me than a speed demon (that is what the crossfire is for =)

I take it that the big block chevy just didn't have it for the short haul over the 302? or was it more of a gearing issue...


May have to look into that Gary, I've gone to Amsoil for a lot of my vehicles (and the ones I'm forced to maintain for legal reasons.......) but there is always room for improvment, I just don't see Amsoil making an oil with a decent level of ZDDP anytime soon... then there is the issues that so many mention about using brand x over brand y...

 

The Mustang was light and quick, the Camaro had torque, and took a little longer in the 60'. Bob, the 'stang owner had 4.11's, and I was running 3.73's. He would hole shot me, I would real him in. His was a 4-speed manual, mine, B&M 400 turbo, 3500 stall. But, the big block, and young driver just didn't agree on things. I later, after 4 motors, went to an LT1 Vette small block, 350/350hp...and that, would take the little 'stang everytime.

 

I have heard that the big blocks can be difficult to manage (hence why I was steered clear of any when I was shopping for a chevelle...and then with the mustang when no chevelles were available). From what it sounds like it was the classic small block v. big block race! What year Camaro if I may ask? - Tim