I've been autocrossing my base 2005 Crossfire for some time, but with the classification of Honda Civic Type R and Subaru STI in DS, I find myself finishing near the bottom of the entrants. Are any of you in DS? How is your experience against the Rs and STIs? What have you done to your Crossfire? Thanks in advance.
Stefan
My Mods: 30mm front anti-sway bar, cat back exhaust, Koni Yellow adjustable shocks.

 

Anyway you can shave forty or fifty years off your age? That would help I am sure. 😉

 

Quote: "Anyway you can shave forty or fifty years off your age? That would help I am sure. 😉"

Unfortunately, I'm not Benjamin Button; so I can't. However, in the last event, the fastest Civic R ran a 43.9. A VW Golf R ran a 47.3, the Subaru STI ran a 46.5, and I ran a 47.6. So I am .3 slower than the Golf R, and .9 slower than the STII. I know that I can't catch the four Civic Rs, but I want to know how to beat any Golf Rs or STIs.

 

You’re a better man than I Gunga Din.
Have you tried a tune and a better air intake?

 

Unfortunately, an intake and/or tune would take me out of Street class and put me in an even more competitive class. However, the tune probably isn't detectable, but I'd only pick up a few horsepower and feet/pounds of torque, and I wouldn't feel right about cheating, especially when it wouldn't help that much. I'm going to try to get more negative camber in front and an alignment. I have the necessary bolts, but I haven't installed them yet. Thanks for your comments.

 

shaag78749 send velociabstract a PM. He is SOLO champ and always willing to help.
Type R's have limited slip differential. Couldn't you add that to your car?

 

Thanks. I will PM him, but I think that he is mostly into road racing. I can't install a limited slip as that would put me in a different class. The Civic Type R is so awesome because of what the factory did when building them. I formerly owned a 1997 Plymouth ACR, which also came competitive from the factory.

 

I'll start by saying I'm ignorant about auto-x rules and classes. I know what mods lowered my times the most and it wasn't power. Now let's see what might help. Find the right brake pads. A quick bite and easy to modulate pad will take time off the clock. Find out what the fast cars are using. Getting the car lower is a must if legal. Is going with the thinnest spring pads doable? If you don't want to lower the front, lower the rear at least. Don't go crazy. You need to keep a little rake front to rear. Run the tires the fast cars use. The right tire is big. I liked 0 toe in the front. It's bad (won't go straight) on the street but makes the car turn in quickly which the Crossfire needs. When I did a sudo auto-x I found the slow steering a problem. Perhaps a smaller steering wheel?

You can't change the cars dynamics. I started getting fast when I stopped trying to make my car do what I wanted and starting driving it the way it wanted to be driven. That will take clearing your mind of preconceptions about how a fast car should drive. Don't limit your imagination and you'll discover lots of tricks. If what your doing isn't working (driving wise), change it. Don't try to do it better. It's not working!

Les

 

Thanks for responding, Les. I have the correct brake pads (HP Plus) and tires (Bridgestone 71-RE). I don't know the mm of the stock spring pads and whether thinner pads will lower the car significantly, but I'll find out. Also, I'm going to get more negative camber in the front and get the front toe as close to zero as I can stand as I drive the car on the street. I appreciate your comments and plan to use them.

 

When I replaced my springs I measured the rear pad ( the parts catalogs call them isolator ) and it was the least thick at 5mm, Mercedes number 210 325 01 84. That was on my limited the way it came from the factory. Sorry, I did not measure the front. Other sizes available are 9, 13, 17 and 21mm. I plan to get into this more when I corner weigh the car.

 

My rear stock SRT isolators were 3 dots 210 325 03 84 = 13mm. So switching to a 1 dot would lower 8mm at the control arm and a bit more overall. I can't remember what was on the front.

Les

 

Spend time practicing braking. I would participate in track days and start by braking early and hard. Learn the limits of the tires. You'll quickly learn how the tires feel just before ABS kicks in. That's what you need to feel every time. Then you begin braking later, then even later and later. Soon you'll find the distance you need from varying speeds within a few feet. The fastest cars (drivers) get the braking right. Next is cornering. Same thing really. Keep pushing until you drift wide. With the power of the SRT I late apex most everything to get on the power early. Perhaps the N/A is the same. Dedicate a day to late apex's only. See if you'r faster doing so. I couldn't practice in competition. Ego? Fear of looking bad? Probably. Find events to practice on a track with no pressure or find a place in Mexico. After polishing your control and finding the limits, then it's time to begin making changes. If you make changes before learning, you'll never learn the most valuable lessons to going faster. Practice, practice and more of the same, but with a motive. Late braking. Braking feel on different surfaces. Corner grip. Getting to maximum corner grip quickly... bla bla bla. Go into a practice with a plan. Don't deviate from it and learn the lessons. Naturally, you may have already done so. Since I can't know so, I said so. Good luck, learning is great fun. At least after the fact.

Les

 

Excellent advice, Les. I appreciate your taking the time to provide it. Now, as you say, I just have to practice, practice, practice!

 

Hey Shaag,

I feel your pain :-) it's very tough trying to beat the newer awd cars. I'm running DS also (for now) - My cheaty mods are SRT6 brakes all around, SRT6 springs all around, and going to the H&R sway bar this year. I'm also running 18" wheels / tires front and rear, with Nitto NT05's. Tires are extremely important as well as braking. The Nitto's have done well, but the Bridgestone RE71's are the hot tire for autocross. (Both are 200 treadwear tires)

Les's advice above is spot on as well. My club lets me run DS for now, but are threatening to make me go to DSP. (I've got a carbon fiber hood) Since there are not many running DSP with us, I'll probably win the class for the year, but that's not much fun. I ended up 2nd in points last year, mostly because I ran more events than most of the others, I'm normally mid pack in times.

The group I run with are an absolute blast, they run a challenge deal at the end of the event for $$ and prizes that's a hoot to run in. Here's a video from the last event last year, I ended up winning my class, and the challenge event. The challenge is based on consistency, so you're technically running against yourself.


-Gary

 

Thanks, Gary. Do the SRT6 springs, which have a higher spring rate, assist in sweepers and slaloms? What shocks do you have? I found the H&R front bar very helpful in eliminating the tendency for the Crossfire to push in corners. Thanks again for the help.
Stefan

 

I tried Eibachs .... worse than stock. Too soft. K&W's spring rates were pretty good. 640 front and around 440 rear. The front could use even more spring rate. The ground control I had (1300 and 900 I believe) were too stiff for a near stock car. You need lots of aero, race tires, sticky track and high speeds to get them to work. Based on what I've tried I'd say 440 to 480 rear. Front needs 600 to 800. For those interested, stock SRT (coupe) springs rates are 451 front and 480 rear.


Les

 

Well, I stole this from another part of the forum - "NA Crossfire is 285lbs per inch in the front and 354lbs in the rear. Mercedes claims that the SRT-6 is 50% stiffer" - I can't really answer your question because I never ran the NA car in stock form, I swapped in the SRT rear springs prior to starting last years events. (I ran my SRT6 the year before and couldn't touch the Bimmers in FS class) So I bought this car primarily for Autocross in DS class. The lot we run most of our events on is unsealed blacktop and I get tons of front grip with the Nitto's and the current setup. I do get some understeer / push on the sealed blacktop lots,

I'm planning to swap in the front SRT springs this spring and go with the H&R front sway bar. My plan is to also swap in a SRT rear diff to get higher ratios, and possibly add an LSD (Budget permitting.) If you watch the video above, I actually was going to 3rd gear on the last section - These long courses we run have me hanging out on the rev limiter in 2nd quite a bit. The higher gear ratios in the SRT rear end should help.

 

And, I just found this on the ALLPar forum - "The SRT-6 had stiffer spring rates (50% in the front, 42% in the rear, with higher jounce and rebound rates) and larger brake rotors, with vented rear discs"

My shocks are aftermarket, but I can't remember what they are at the moment. I've looked at upgrading them for this year, but haven't done much research yet.

-Gary