P is for pending I think, it should be the first one to show which makes it second on the readout.

 

P means it is for the Powertrain which is the Engine, Transmission, and items connected to them.

 

Read the post again.

 

Now I have another subscribed youtube channel. Going to check out more of his videos when I have time. I noticed there is a roll cage in the interior.

 

I have a 2005 crossfire srt6 with a p0410 code,have replaced the rcm and air pump, still get p0410. Is there a way to to diagnose this issue without the use of the drb3 scan tool, or the Chrysler dealership.
thanks
normt18101

 

It can be frustrating to figure out, but it is a simple system - the pump runs and injects unfiltered air into the exhaust manifold to provide more O2 so the cats will heat faster. The pump only runs at startup and then only when the ECU wants it to.

If you watch the O2 sensors with an OBD reader that displays live data, you can see the change when the pump runs - now, the pump only runs on startup and then only when the ECU wants it to. But you can open the RCM up and manually close the relay with your finger while someone watches the O2 sensor readings - if the O2 sensors show no change, the cause is:

1) The pump is not running (due to bad pump motor, etc. - easy to fix)
2) The pump is running but one or more of the check valves is not allowing air to flow or the pump itself is bad. (Changing the check valves would be, for me, challenging to do...)

The dealer will not be much help and the DRB would be OK, but if you have live data displayed in your OBD reader, that does the job.

 

Thank you Pizzaguy for answering my question.
I have a supercharger on this car, is it necessary to remove the supercharger to access the vacuum lines to the check valves ?
thanks
Normt18101

 

Have replaced rcm, airpump and l & r switchover valves. Tech that worked on car indicated supercharger was intermittent and would not kick in most of the time. After considerable drive cycles, evap and secondary air are incomplete, could the non functioning supercharger be the problem?
Thanks for your help
normt18101

 

Is the pump running when you first start the car in the morning ? This will tell if the fuse is good.
Have you been able to watch the O2 sensors as Pizza guy advised; What was the results?? That would tell if the blue vacuum solenoid valve is working. That solenoid is located on the right (passenger) side at the front of the engine. The clear vacuum line running towards the rear supplies vacuum to the valve to open the valves which adds the air from the pump into the exhaust when the pump is running. So two possible problems; No vacuum thru the clear line to the solenoid or the solenoid is not functioning.

I doubt a faulty supercharger ingagement has anything to do with the P0410 code. However you can likely repair that problem by replacing the intercooler pump, which is located down by the passenger side fog light. Use the new Bosch pump as a replacement. However it could be contributing to the drive cycles not completing.

Also give an indication of where you are located (which state and north or south/east/west) other owners nearby may be able to help you if we know where you live.

 

Is this vehicle an SRT-6 or a modified Limited?

 

Post #85 says it's a 2005 SRT6. Why are you asking?

 

I missed that. I did see a post that said he had a supercharger and some have attempted to put them on an NA. I was thinking that could be the problem. That is the bad part about these looonngg postings.

 

Thank you zip439 for your response.
I do have a 2005 crossfire srt6. The air pump is running at cold start. The results from the live data on the o2 sensors is as follows: (when pump is running)
O2 s1 (passenger side) .090 - .750volts

O2 s2 (drivers side) .465 - .470volts
By the way I live in Goodyear Arizona.

Please let me know what you think.
thanks,
Normt18101

 

Okay I believe those numbers look normal, but the drivers side is a bit higher than it should be in closed loop and cold startup. It may indicate there is a problem with the drivers side. You should have a low voltage with a lean condition. Lean should be about .2 volts and rich is up about .6 to .9 volts. The air pump will run while the engine is warming up, probably not much over one minute and then it should shut off. Does the air pump shut off ?

Thing is with O2 sensor numbers they fluctuate up and down quickly so it is hard to get a average voltage. When the air pump shuts off you hopefully will see about a 25% increase in the voltages. It's hard to tell.

The vacuum is fed to the solenoid valve blue inlet from the rear of the car through a clear vacuum line that runs to the rear of the car under the passenger fuel rail. The solenoid valve is controlled by the PTCM. There is another clear vacuum line that runs under the supercharger between the two switch over valves (The two gold colored large valves that the large hose and metal tubing connect to the air pump). It is easy to tell if the solenoid valve has vacuum and feeding the vacuum to the switch over valves at startup. Simply pull the vacuum line off the switch over valve and put your thumb over the end of the hose. In your situation I would pull the line off the driver's side switch over valve first. You can feel the vacuum when you remove your thumb from the hose. That vacuum should only be there when the air pump is running at the cold start up. So that will test the vacuum lines and the solenoid operation, but it doesn't tell you if the switch over valves are opening to allow the air pumps pressure into the exhaust system. That's what monitoring the O2 sensors can tell you, but as I said that's difficult to determine by just observing the O2 sensors output voltage.

Do you have any other DTC ?? Good Luck!

 

Thank you zip439 for your response.
Yes, the pump does shut off.
Just a clarification, the readings are just after the pump shuts off. I did find a problem after the readings readings I sent you. There was a broken rubber coupling between the check valve and vacuum line connected to the intake manifold. Replaced it and obviously there was more vacuum. The readings did change just after the pump shut off, the former reading, .465 - .470volts now is .10 - .475 volts, no change on the other. All monitors are set except evap and secondary air, after about 40miles driving, not dtc's. Any ideas now? Your opinion on number of miles to drive to set evap and secondary air. Any test to determine whether switchover valves are working properly (the ones installed were used).

Thanks
Normt18101

 

Okay, you may have found the problem with the vacuum! NICE!!
We need to use the same nomenclature or we'll get confused. A check valve is mechanical. The solenoid in the secondary air system is operated electrically You can see the electric connection at the bottom of the solenoid. Here is a picture:


See the blue collar. That is the vacuum inlet to the solenoid. When the solenoid opens (only at cold starts) it allows vacuum to the yellow collared lines which opens the switch over valves. The switch over valve, passenger side, is in the upper left of the picture and has a gold cap.
In a previous post I asked you to check the vacuum at the drivers side switch over valve by removing the vacuum hose and feeling the vacuum with your thumb. This is at a cold start up with the air pump running. Have you done that?? Do you have vacuum? When the air pump stops running the solenoid should close and thus the vacuum at the switch over valves should not be present. It is explained more in my posts above. Please go back and read my previous posts.

A driving cycle must be completed (some testing requires multiply cycles to be ready for testing). A driving cycle is not how far you drive, but how many times the car has gone through a start warm up and shut down cool off cycle. The EVAP system only works when the PTCM activates it under particular parameters.

 

Thank you zip439 for your response.
Thanks for the clarification on the blue collar connected to the solenoid. I did check the vacuum at the the drivers side switchover valve and there is vacuum as well as the passenger side switchover valve at cold start when the pump is running. Cannot get a reading of 02 sensors while pump is running, scan tool takes too long to set live data. The readings I gave you reflect about 10 to 15 seconds after pump has shut down.
passenger side .080 - .750volts
Drivers side .110 - .650 volts
​​side. Please let me know what you think.

Thanks
Normt18101

 

When you tested for vacuum at the switch over valve did you also notice the vacuum was gone when the air pump stopped running? The solenoid should close and thus you should no longer be pulling a vacuum though the small vacuum line at the switch over valves. If the vacuum is indeed gone then the solenoid is working properly; Opening and closing. One other thing that could be tested easily is the air pump output. The output air pressure hose from the air pump runs to a metal tube which runs up the front of the engine to the switch over valves. Un-clamp the spring loaded clamp and pull the rubber hose off the metal tubing. When you start the cold car the air pump comes on and you should feel the air coming out that hose. It is a large volume of air and easily detected. JUST BE VERY CAREFUL OF THE SPINNING BELT!

After testing the air pump discharge you have completed all the physical test to the system with the exception of the switch over valves: The vacuum lines have been tested and proven to show vacuum as the solenoid opens and closes. The electrical circuits are all working properly or the air pump and solenoid would not be working as you have tested. SO the only thing left is the switch over valves. I know you have said the originals have been removed and a set of used valves were installed. Did you inspect those valves for cleanliness? Did you apply a vacuum to them to see if the diaphragm was good? Where the valve bolts to the car was the passage open and clean? Did you use a new gasket ? I have seen pictures where the passage at the block was completely clogged and thus no air could get into the exhaust. If you clean these try to use a good vacuum cleaner with a long tube fitting so as you clean the passage you are sucking the dirt up and out and not allowing it to fall into the exhaust chambers.

PS did you send your old RCM to Tighed 1 for repairs?? He lives in AZ as do you and he has repaired hundreds of RCM for us. Send him an email tighed1@hotmail.com It will be better than new and you will have a replacement should the need arise in the future. Most of us carry a spare RCM and CPS with us in the glove box at all times.

With your scan tool have you cleared the P0410 code?? It won't clear by itself. As you said above you repaired a vacuum leak, so maybe the problem is corrected.

Thing is P0410 is a generic OBD II code. Mercedes also has codes P2003, P2028 and P2029 which breaks the problem into separate factors which helps to further diagnosis this problem. Not sure if they even apply to Crossfires. You need a good scan tool that can get into the Mercedes codes.

After all that is completed I really don't know what else to do other than watch the lambda and glean what info you can from them. You said you can't find any other DTC through out the entire car's other systems, so I'm reluctant to suggest other testing as we would really be getting out into the weeds.

 

Thank you zip439 for your response. I did check vacuum at the switch over valves when the pump went off, there was no vacuum. I also checked the the air pump pressure at the switch over valves, there was pressure at each.

I also called the company that installed the the used switch over valves, they told me the mechanic replaced the valves with the 20year old gaskets, obviously I was concerned as I had told them I had new gaskets. Could this possibly be part of the problem.? I have a meeting with them this Thursday . Let me know what you think.
Thank you,
Normt18101

 

Yes it is possible a bad gasket could throw the P0410 code, but I doubt a "mechanic" would reuse a gasket that wouldn't do the job. He should have also been certain the air passages were clean as well as the used "new" switch over valves were clean and working. I hope you are taking your car to a independent shop that deals specifically with European cars. They will also have the correct scan tool to figure this out.

Does your car have a tune or is the PTCM, commonly called the ECU, programmed as original?

Here is a link to diagnose P0410 , part 1 explains the system and part 2 near the end of the video shows the O2 sensor test with a bidirectional scan tool part 2 follows part 1 at the site. Hopefully your mechanic has that ability. Good Luck!

PS here is a video on a Mercedes very similiar to our car and showing exactly what I'm talking about with the switch over valves :