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Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

Old May 25, 2014 | 12:40 AM
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Default Re: Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

Originally Posted by velociabstract
Any resolution from the good men of Buckhead Imports? Knowing what the problem was will be helpful to those of us that are in line for larger injectors.

Les
With the long holiday weekend, it will likely be Tuesday/Wednesday before they can take a peek.

Originally Posted by MI1XFIRE
Congrats on the sale Jogn, the new owner is getting one hell of a car.
Good luck with the fix, if I were a betting man, my money would be on a intermitent misfire from a bad ignition coil or two.
Thank you sir!

I was talking with my neighbor today, and the first thing he suggested was a hairline crack in the ceramic of the spark plugs. He said he had a Mustang that did the same thing... it would drive perfectly fine until it reached full temp, then it would have a "miss" and then the cylinder would drop off.

It's ENTIRELY possible, as I didn't have the first issue until we swapped in the new plugs. I just find it weird that a 5° difference in ambient temp would mean the difference between driving 200 miles, and being broken down.
 
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Old May 28, 2014 | 02:21 PM
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Default Re: Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

Just received a call from Buckhead a few minutes ago, Thomas told me they put OEM plugs back in it and stayed with the stock heat range. According to him, even the E55's running HIGH amounts of tuning don't even go with colder plugs... I was under the impression there are several people running with colder plugs, but I guess they aren't dealing with the heat from the 61mm pulley like I am. All of that is a bit over my head, honestly.

They are also going to put it on the dyno and scale down the injectors a bit.

I asked about the color difference in the two plugs from the same cylinder, he said the lead plug usually fires just before TDC on the induction side, while the trailing plug fires milliseconds later during exhaust stroke.

Makes sense to me...
 
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Old May 28, 2014 | 02:25 PM
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Default Re: Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

Not what the repair manual says about the two plugs :

The two spark plugs per cylinder are fired slightly out of phase to prevent the cylinder pressures from rising too
quickly, which could cause knocking. To prevent one spark plug from eroding more quickly than the other, they
alternately lead each other.
Under normal conditions, the timing is the same for all cylinders, but the timing can be
delayed in individual cylinders if knocking is present in one or more.
 
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Old May 28, 2014 | 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

Plugs! Well, we still have to wait because I'm sure your tune is richer than Buffet, but colder plugs are perfect for WOT and less perfect for driving around town. But as you said, many ride around with one step colder without problems. When you get your car back running right your going to want to hold on to it. Maybe you can give the deposit back with interest?

Les
 
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Old May 28, 2014 | 03:04 PM
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Default Re: Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

Originally Posted by ala_xfire
Not what the repair manual says about the two plugs :
Well, to be fair, he said on the phone "Don't quote me"... guess I should've taken that advice.

He was partly right, but since they alternate there is no "lead" plug.

Originally Posted by velociabstract
Plugs! Well, we still have to wait because I'm sure your tune is richer than Buffet, but colder plugs are perfect for WOT and less perfect for driving around town. But as you said, many ride around with one step colder without problems. When you get your car back running right your going to want to hold on to it. Maybe you can give the deposit back with interest?

Les
Yes, I'm still skeptical that this COMPLETELY solves the issue, but I'm optimistic based on his optimism

And I was thinking the same thing -- it was hard to part with when it's running less than perfect... once the tune is perfectly dialed in, it's going to feel like a different car.

Sadly, the deposit is received and Kim started her first day of the program today. So, it's a done deal.

There will be an AMG calling my name in 2015 though, no worries
 
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Old May 28, 2014 | 04:51 PM
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Default Re: Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

Originally Posted by JHM2K

There will be an AMG calling my name in 2015 though, no worries
Did anyone else read "V-8" in that line.. or was it just me?
 
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Old May 28, 2014 | 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

Originally Posted by Mrmiata
Did anyone else read "V-8" in that line.. or was it just me?
Your senses are keen, sir
 
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Old May 28, 2014 | 06:36 PM
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Default Re: Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

i doubt it is just plugs john. they looked like crap but bad plugs are bad all the time not just when its hot outside. even with a hairline crack the engine temp alone would cause the issue and yours is directly related to outside temp. tell jason to keep looking
 
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Old May 28, 2014 | 10:13 PM
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Default Re: Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

Originally Posted by 32krazy!
i doubt it is just plugs john. they looked like crap but bad plugs are bad all the time not just when its hot outside. even with a hairline crack the engine temp alone would cause the issue and yours is directly related to outside temp. tell jason to keep looking
I'm with you on this one. If it was as simple as a plug swap, we could have done that in the garage. But, like you said, plugs are bad in any temp... and certainly wouldn't go from "working" at shut-down, to "misfire" at startup after the temperature built up.

Does not compute.
 
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Old May 28, 2014 | 11:05 PM
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Default Re: Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

Originally Posted by ala_xfire
Not what the repair manual says about the two plugs :
I saw that too but I never bothered to answer.
My guess if it's not the plugs or coils then you move on to the PCM. Maybe it is programed wrong or the heat gets to it.
 

Last edited by onehundred80; May 28, 2014 at 11:23 PM.
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Old May 29, 2014 | 12:48 AM
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Default Re: Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

Originally Posted by onehundred80
I saw that too but I never bothered to answer.
My guess if it's not the plugs or coils then you move on to the PCM. Maybe it is programed wrong or the heat gets to it.
PCM?

I swapped RCMs with Airscape, no difference in behavior.
 
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Old May 29, 2014 | 02:03 AM
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Default Re: Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

Originally Posted by JHM2K
PCM?

I swapped RCMs with Airscape, no difference in behavior.
Powertrain control module. Coils are connected to it.
 
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Old May 29, 2014 | 10:45 AM
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Default Re: Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

That is a possibility actually. If the tuner removes the flash EEprom to burn the software in, they may not have soldered it back correctly. That's a lot of little legs lol, and everyone makes mistakes. They could have burnt a pull down resistor in line for the coil's drivers too.
 
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Old May 29, 2014 | 12:34 PM
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Default Re: Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

Originally Posted by onehundred80
Powertrain control module. Coils are connected to it.
Originally Posted by sk8erjosh09
That is a possibility actually. If the tuner removes the flash EEprom to burn the software in, they may not have soldered it back correctly. That's a lot of little legs lol, and everyone makes mistakes. They could have burnt a pull down resistor in line for the coil's drivers too.
Gotcha. As far as I'm aware, the PCM has never been removed. All tunes have been the flash variety...

I'll have them check the PCM.
 
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Old Jun 4, 2014 | 11:50 AM
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Default Re: Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

Good news,

I received word back from the shop today that the car is fixed. The final thing to be swapped was the injectors... apparently, the EV 14 injectors have a track history of issues -- anything from the pins falling out, to o-ring issues, etc...

So, I sent them my stock injectors and they installed them on Tuesday. Tony then put the car on the dyno and spent an hour or two tweaking the tune to work with the factory injectors (not a stretch since my 61mm pulley only makes ~19 PSI).

I will pick it up with a clean bill of health, and be able to sell it to the next owner with a clear conscience.

Moral of the story -- "Bosch, or walk home" only applies to the CPS.
 
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Old Jun 4, 2014 | 01:13 PM
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Default Re: Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

You should run the 1/2 mile event first, then sell it. I really happy to hear it was so simple to fix once the trouble was found. Hopefully not to expensive for you too.

Les
 
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Old Jun 4, 2014 | 01:54 PM
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Default Re: Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

Originally Posted by velociabstract
You should run the 1/2 mile event first, then sell it. I really happy to hear it was so simple to fix once the trouble was found. Hopefully not to expensive for you too.

Les
Trust me, it crossed my mind... But I will refrain. I might make a quick run up to Bowling Green this weekend, we shall see.

Repair wasn't cheap, but it wasn't out of line, either. They took good care of the car and even drove it home last night to confirm all is well. So, I don't mind paying for good service.
 
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Old Jun 6, 2014 | 01:36 AM
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Default Re: Heat-related misfire issue (P0300, P0302, P0305, etc)... need help!!

FRIDAY UPDATE:

Car is back home, and running stronger than ever.

After it was all said and done, the "mods" I blessed the car with last September all came off except the 61mm pulley... LMAO!

Below is the video from the dyno run... healthy numbers considering it's on the stingiest dyno in the southeast

https://vimeo.com/97494837

AFR's are in the healthy (and safe) 12.5-11.9 range, using stock injectors and a Walbro 255.

Graph is attached:
 
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