hi guys. I’m William. New here. LOVE this vehicle. Phoenix is where my wide and I are located. We take the case for little jaunts on the weekend around the metro area tiles until the sun here starts melting the tires. 😉

on a side note, and hopefully helpful for Phoenix/Scottsdale and metro area residents, Airpark Chrysler onE Frank Lloyd Wright Boulevard, WILL work on our cars. Jacob the tech there, his father has had several and her abs his team are VERY finicky with the nuances of these cars.

my hope is that my situation can be rectified with a simple “to reset procedure”, or the like. But before I did that, then set an appointment for the dealer, I wanted to ask the collective brain trust if the answers to my questions (before), point to a simple solution…like a top sync or something.

Pizzaguy posted these questions 6 years ago, and I’m experiencing the EXACT same thing with my 05 Roadster after flawless operation the last 6 months. I say 6 months because when I bought the car we had to replace (rebuild) all 7 pumps? ( probably not the right word), and replace the hydraulic motor. Since then, the top has worked great.

At that same time a brand new battery was purchased.

More provenance… The car has not died, not been jumped, the alarm has not gone off…. No one has poked, prodded or looked at it funny.

On with the saga… the other day I went to put the top down, and after uncoupling the D ring, nothing…zippo…

so, I found pizzaguy’s post and decided to repost his questions with my answers.

1) If you unlatch the top from the windshield frame, do the driver and passenger windows automatically go down?

- Yes

2) Once the windows go down, is the little light on in the top switch?

- Yes. Stays on. No flashing or intermittent lighting

3) If so, and you press the switch, do you hear a beep?

- No

4) If it does NOT beep - do you hear the faint sound of the electric trunk lock activating?

- Yes (verified by the trunk being locked after the attempt. Could only unlock it AFTER performing pressure release procedure.

5) Do you the hear the hydraulic motor start running?

- Not sure ( I am 99% certain I do not). Where should I hear this from? How loud?

In addition, the trunk obviously locks because I can’t open it afterward unless I do the bleed pressure procedure.


(Your answers should be: yes, yes, no, yes, yes. The first 'wrong' answer is the beginning of knowing what is wrong here.)

thoughts, guidance….

Pleasure to meet all of you

William

 

Have you checked the divider in the trunk to be sure it is seated properly and if so, try jiggling the switch on the top frame above the passenger's right ear. Lastly, check your fluid level in the pump.

 

Well, YOU are the first to actually read my instructions and TRY.

So the top worked after all those parts were replaced, got it. Something went wrong later. A top re-sync might do it. Grab your top tool and (if your top tool has no hex key) grab a hex key and put the top down then up 2--3 times with the engine running. If that resets it, fine.

If not....
If you aren't sure you hear the pump, you don't hear the pump, you CAN NOT miss that sound. You have owned the car for some time,I can't understand how you can say you dont know if you hear the pump running.

The fact that the trunk locks but you get no pump action AND no BEEP is a bit of a quandry.
If the pump refuses to run, it stands to reason that the PowerTop controller is not happy - it is normal for it to BEEP which indicates the controller sees something wrong.

We know the latch retainer switch is OK and the PTCM and BCM are OK because the windows went down and the trunk locked. And we know the trunk is locked by the PTCM because if you do the "pressure release" procedure, the trunk unlocks.

The fact that all of this is working but the pump is not starting is perplexing. What I would try:
Put top down manually.
Hit button, see if top goes up. If it goes up, your divider switch or "top open" switch over the passengers' head is the issue.

If it wont go up, then put the top up and down manually 2-3 times with the engine running, to see if it re-syncs. If not, we can go from there.

If top won't go up, then we can move on. Also, this will leave you with the top DOWN, so you can manually lift the tonneau lid and peek into the cavity and see the fluid level, if it is way low, the pump wont run.

The ONLY way to prove that the divider and top open switches are the cause, is to manually put the top down and try to raise it with the button. (Well, unless you are up to tear the trim from the trunk and measure the voltage at the pin on the connector of the controller that goes to the two switches.

 

THe top resync is where you put the top up and down 2-3 times with the engine running. You must do the FULL procedure as in my video, not the procedure in the owner's manual.


Also, you mentioned going to a dealer - see my sigline and do not visit a dealer.

 

Hey guys. Thanks so much for the great ideas and suggestions. I apologize for taking the better part of the day to get back to you but my wife and I enjoyed the better part of the day at the local American Legion Post, taking part in something FAR MORE important than my silly top.

I never thought of hit a point in my life where I coups make that statement but…. Here we are. I hope you all had an equally fulfilling day.

ok…sorry I wasn’t clear in my original post. After I got the car back from the rebuilds (around December), EVERYTHING worked flawlessly. it was a dream.

to answer some questions….

- Plunger switch (spring thing near passengers ear) pushes in and out smoothly, extending and withdrawing properly (as it looks like it should)

- played with the divider numerous times. Send to seat in the little hooks on each side just as it should

- I probably should hear the top hydraulic motor but, after installing my new Kenwood system, Beethoven drowns out most sounds around me. Plus…some hearing issues. My wife and I BOTH have a listen this evening…definitely no pump sounds taking place.

- fluid level. Just about a woman’s finger width (not length), from top. Appears to be filled right where it should be.

- have only performed one manual top down and up procedure, and when retracted and button pressed, top does not rise from the dead.

I have not yet tried the top up and down manually procedure several times with the vehicle running. That was my next thing that I will try in the morning. Frankly, I haven’t done that because the description just sort of stops. It says “repeat bullets two and three once or twice more”. The end. So…. What do I do after that last up and close and hex lock? Does it just magically start working (in theory). It just sort of leaves you hanging so it felt like maybe it was not something many people have tried and had success with.

i do see it mentioned in one of your replies so I’m guessing it’s an actual thing that more than one person has tried and has success with. However…after the third try following the third bullet…. What next?

Am I missing any answers? I’m sorry if I did. I try to be thorough. My wife calls it **** retentive.

if anyone would rather “talk some ideas through”, to try live…the old fashioned way…I would be happy to give them my number.

thank you again everyone. Really appreciate the warm reception for a newbie and the excellent suggestions and timeliness of replies.

Rgds

William

 

Ok. After waiting for a little less crazy sun, I tried the manual up/down procedure EXACTLY as in the video…including locking the hex bolt one click.

did this 4x.

i come around, get in and start the car, pull down and twist the d-ring, then push up on the top. The convertible top button is now lit red (video).

if I hit the top switch to open it, I hear the trunk unlock/lock actuator kick in but get no hydraulic sound or top movement. Button stays solid red.

now, when I give up and pull the top back down, when it gets about 1/4” from making contact with the frame, it starts beeping and the top button light now flashes.

it will stay in this state (beeping and flashing), until I tap the top button again. The beeping stops and button light stops flashing.


i then pull down twist the d-ring, lock the top, put up the windows manually (typically both windows will go up if you keep holding the top up button after closing the roof. This is not happening in this state.

holding the button down to try and get the windows closed does nothing. No beeping, no light flashing and no windows up. They go up fine manually by pressing the window buttons individually.

I’m including a few video blurbs to illustrate the process

help!!!!!

lol

i hope everyone is having a lovely day.

Ps. I TRIED uploading a few 15 serving videos to show steps and results. I guess we can’t. If anyone who is helping me would like to see them, I can forward manually. I FEEEEEEL like I’m inches away from solving this thing. Lol. Maybe thousands of dollars but definitely inches.

thanks again all

 

New thing…. After the manual procedure leaving the top down (making sure cowell is locked, partition is in proper place. Hex is In proper position….

I’m now getting a beeping that happens when I shift into deuce and pull out. It goes through this cycle of beeps 3 times while driving, and then stops.

 

And finally, the spoiler goes up and down just fine. Someone said they had a problem like this but the spoiler didn’t work either. Turned out to be a fuse they shared apparently. Seems odd, but ok.

 

Another new thing…tested power to the top motor (left rear side of trunk), it’s getting power. still no noise from it. Anyone know where I can buy a partition switch? I don’t think it’s bad but easy enough to replace.

is there a fuse that could have blown. Again…. This really feels like something minor and stupid the more digging I do

if I went and had a scan run, would it even register a code if I’m getting no errors on the dash?

 

Are there any Crossfire wizards from this forum in the Phoenix area?

 

FOr the last time, it is NOT your divider switch, if it was, the top would go up when you have it down all the way.
The reason for the odd beeps is that the top thinks it started a cycle, but did not finish that cycle.

How did you prove the pump has power? Unless you tore the trim from the trunk, there is no way to prove that. And if you tore that much trimp from the trunk, you should dig down on the passenger side, below the trunk, pull out the CLP/SSM and inspect it for water damage. Im starting to think the CLP/SSM has been wet. This is a very common reason for the top to refuse to work.

 

Didn’t say it was, Just figured since I had the trim all out and tested power to the motor, while checking for water. Not sure where water would come from in Arizona. Hasn’t rained in weeks, that I would just replace it.

no water. Power to motor confirmed by meter testing the motor. Is there some source in these cars that leaks water into the trunk that I’m unaware of?

If not, no rain…No water.

any other thoughts?

 

Not sure you have to “tear” trim from the trunk. I just pulled these little black plastic clips and gingerly removed panels. Didn’t check the PASSENGER side though. No water piled on the drivers side, going to assume none on the passenger side.

 

The motor has no power until the controller closes one of the rotation relays. If there is power at the motor, you have a frozen relay or the controller is bad. Since there is power to the motor and it is not running, I'd say the motor is destroyed in addition to the problem with the controller/rotation relay.

If you mean there is power to the RD/YL lead, fine. Is there power to the controller on C1-10?

If the car has been driven ONCE in the rain in it's entire life, if you have washed the car ONCE in it's entire life, the chance that the CLP/SSM has been damaged by water exists. It can take months for water to flow down the wiring harness to the module. Water can get in from leaks around the lid or fuel door as well as around the wing. Yes, the chance may be VERY low, but it is not 0%.
Personally, I have replaced two CLP/SSMs that "could not possibly be the problem" but turned out to have horrible water damage.

I am not standing next to your car, there is NO WAY I can tell you what is wrong with the top, all I can do it offer experience. We know it's not the top open switch and we know its not the divider switch. You do not know what the prolem is, logically, that means you do not know what it isn't, until you investigate all possible suspects.

That leaves:
Wet CLP/SSM (common)
Inhibit from the BCM due to issues in the brake controller (rare, but it does happen)
Bad trunk latch switch (once unheard of, been happening more and more in the last ten years)
Bad Power Top Control Module (Never heard of one failing unless the car sat in three feet of water, and since the module seems to respond to your "pressure release" technique, I"d say the PTCM is fine)
Bad BCM (not likely since you windows go down like they should)
A bad sensor on one of the many cylinders, which is confusing the PTCM (I really doubt this one, since you don't have a flashing/beeping switch)

If you are going to refuse to check everything, then give up now. You do NOT know what the issue is, so do not tell yourself what the issue "isn't".

 

Thank you again for your detailed reply. Was not able to test power FROM the motor, only TO the motor. The more is receiving power. Hooked a meter to it and when to switch pressed, it’s getting power. I’m assuming in order to test power FROM the motor, it works have to be removed and supplied by an external power source. I don’t have that capability.

not sure what a c1-c10 is, so couldn’t tell you. If the motor is blown (which at this point I’m tending to believe is the case after talking to the guy who installed the 7 rebuilt pumps (he also replaced the motor just in case but replaced it from a Mercedes parts car, so it could have been near EOL))

if the motor is destroyed, why would there have to be something wrong with the controller or other item you mentioned? It seems all other parts are working fine.

I’m not asking to be rude, so please don’t take it as such, this is not my area of expertise, and I’m genuinely curious how you’ve gleaned there are two issues when to a layman it seems like only one.

I’ma computer expert. Came out of the womb with a propeller hat on and everything. So if you asked ME a similar question from my industry, I would explain it in a clear and concise a way as possible so you could learn and help others. Please do that for me. 😀

again, I truly appreciate the time and detail. I respect your knowledge and sharing it. That is why anything you’ve suggested or asked questions on, I’ve provided as much detail or followed instructions to the letter of the law. Hopefully that is equally appreciated.

thank you kindly

William

 

One more time: There is NO POWER on the motor unless the controller applies power to it. If it is sitting there with power applied to the motor, you have more than a bad motor.
Click the link below, download the manual, go to Chapter 8W, then to "Power Top". On page 8W-66-5 you will see that there is NO POWER to the motor unless you have the button pressed AND the cycle has started.
If there is power on the motor all the time, then something is WAY WRONG.

https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...ollection.html

YOu want the "2005 Crosssfire NA and SRT6 (Coupe and Roadster) Service Manual.

That will make things clearer.

 

There is no power on the motor until the button is pressed. That is what I said in my earlier reply. I’ll read your suggestion but why so agitated in your reply? I’m being friendly and polite. If you don’t like giving out the information repeatedly and helping those of us who truly appreciate the help…


Do you know how many times for YEARS I had to explain to people that it wasn’t their coffee cup holder on their computer that was broken when they put the cup in it, but it was the CD-ROM drive that they were breaking off each time?

Or how many times I had to explain to people there was no ANY key, when the manual CLEARLY said “press any key to continue”?

We have to enjoy providing the knowledge we have to those who don’t have it, otherwise we should stop providing it. Period.

Again, I thank you for what you are sharing but please hold back on the “for the last time…” comments. It doesn’t actually help anyone and just makes your day even less pleasant.

If you’re local I’ll happily buy you a beer for your help. 😀

 

Taking pizzaguy to task is not warranted, he has a lot of experience and has one hundred times as many posts as you. Most of them are giving assistance, not asking for it. The technical written word does not have emotion in it.

 

You took that as taking him to task???? Wow. Read it again for context.

i just asked for a little friendliness in his replies. He seems annoyed replying. I’m not taking anyone “to task”. I simply asked to not have his finger shaken at me like I was being scolded for my question. Did you not see the oozing appreciation and thankfulness in EVERY SINGLE REPLY. that’s great that he posts a lot. Wonderful. I hope he helps many many people But I don’t believe I deserved the fatherly scolding for asking my question. I’m 54, not 14.

 

You kind of are whining like a 14 year old. I've seen way worse posts. He is the expert here on the roadster by a mile. He's a good guy and well respected here. Remember you are getting way more than what you paid to get the information you have received. You are more than getting your money's worth!