2007 Roadster Limited
A couple of months ago the weather started getting nice enough to drive the Roadster. So I started cleaning it up, checking fluids and driving it to the corner store occasionally.
The Car had been idle for a couple of weeks, but it was often idle for several weeks at a time.
So first I think the Fob has a dead battery, but after changing them I realize the Car battery is as dead as a rock. Now I bought this car last July, and the battery was replaced at that time by the owner. So I figured something was up. The battery would no longer hold a charge, so I replaced it.
When installing the new battery I noticed when making the connections it arced significantly. So I checked the cables, they are in fine shape, still in their holders with the secondary shielding in great shape. Infact, all the wires and cables look as if they have never been moved since they were installed. My first inclination was the Diodes in the Alternator had gone bad, and replaced it. But it wasn’t the problem.
The Battery seems as if it has a direct short to Ground?
Next, I came here and did some researching.
After following Pizza Guy’s troubleshooting guide (Battery Drain), Im afraid my situation is unique.
First off, when measuring the current flow from the Ground post to the cable I have 10+ amps.
I tried removing each fuse, including the ones behind the Drivers door. I removed the 2)50amp and 200amp fuses, and no change. I can lift the Alt cable and still no change. I can move the Cable to the Starter and it feels free (can’t see it completely) still has it’s secondary shielding that feels just fine, and still no change.
I have tried cycling all the switches, including the Ignition, and lights, but no change. I have reconnected the Battery proper, started the car and driven it, no codes or indicator lights, and still draining 10amps.
I would think if the Solenoid was the problem it would click or maybe even try to start when the Ignition was turned or the Battery was connected and disconnected? I have raised and lowered the Top, thinking maybe something was not located correctly, but it seems just fine, with no lights or bells when down or up.
Looking at the Starter location is why I haven’t tried removing it yet, but I fear I may need that tutorial as well.

I am just about out of ideas, the ones I do have seem far fetched, so I was hoping someone had a few for me. The weather has gotten wonderful for Driving, and I am eager to get this sorted out.
Thanks,

 

Have you disconnected the siren alarm under the wiper cowl? An internal battery in the siren, leaks and causes damage and short on the circuit board. James

 

No I havent, when I tried to charge the Battery in the car the Siren did scream forcing me to removed the Battery.
I will look to do that in the Morning. Do you think the Sirens leaky Battery could be the source of my issue?
Thanks,

 

10 amps? Is that a typo? I can't imagine 10 amps - that's 120 watts at 12 volts. 120 watts would mean generation of considerable heat, you should smell something smoking.

In any event, go to the link below and get V3 of the full procedure. I go into extensive detail about how to go about this.
https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...lp-papers.html

 

No not a typo, todays search started at 10.7amps,, I thought I would find it pretty quick also, figured it to be a dead short off the positive lead? After reading some of the more prudent post about caring for the electronics, I havent connected the battery proper, just through the Meter. I appreciate the link.
Thanks,

 

Update: So I just got back into this, as life got in the way.
So after reading Pizza Guys manual, (very informative, thanks) I learned I was probably not keeping with the program completely, probably had doors or trunk open at times, and so on. My thinking/or lack of, was since the Battery was not connected, it didnt matter, but it most certainly does. I am a fair Mechanic (Millwright is my Trade), but never fully appreciated what happens in those circuits.
So about a week ago, as I got started I noticed the Amp draw was 1/2 of what it was, about 5A. I chalked some of that on myself maybe. My next plan was to remove the Starter thinking the issue was either the solenoid, or a simple short in the still working motor (not that I have ever seen such a thing) so I checked out Big Dads video and was preparing for the job. Now I currently have the car on Ramps, and it doesnt give you much room to work, so I was planning to raise it up in the rear as well.
So yesterday I jacked up the Passenger Rear, and as I walked around the car, (my Fluke meter still hooked up) is now reading just 1A. I rechecked all my connections. And after replacing the Jack with a Stand, I got under the car, got a better look at the cables to the Starter, but still nothing jumped out at me. I mean everything looks like it did when it came off the show room floor.
So I thought maybe I would check the fuses again, sure enough when I pull Fuse 5, 25A, the one for the "Top Control" the current dropped to 0.15A, 3 min later it was down to 0.03A. Oddly enough, when I replaced the 25A fuse, it went back up, but only to 0.15A then 3 min later it was back to 0.03. The only other fuse that registered any change was a 10A (#13 I think) that runs the Alarm, inside lights and Trunk light. I have tried to bring about the original issue, because I know better then to think this problem is solved. So my plan was to drive it to work today, but the Top would not go down, it unlatches, the pump runs for about 15 seconds, but no movement from the unlatched position. So when I get home, lord only knows what I will find. The hydraulics on this car are dry as a bone, and a quick look this morn seems to suggest they still are. I cycled the Top when originally looking for this problem, maybe one of the wires from the Fuse panel to the Top motor is an issue? I have had the Top act this way once before, not go down, then the next day when planning to troubleshoot it have it work just fine?
BTW, I have no desire to drive this car with the Top up, thats why I didnt just drive it anyway.
For the record I havent checked the Alarm system yet.
Just wanted to keep you folks updated, and let you know how much I appreciate your help.

 

Based on this, it would appear the issue is in the top module but that kinda does not make sense. Of course, as you have observed, following the exact sequence in the "Finding Battery Drain" procedure is VERY important (and not just with a Crossfire).

13 is the fuse that powers the siren, a common battery drainer.

This means low fluid, pump damage or an odd out-of-sync situation where the pump is running but all the solenoids are in the relaxed state, and there is no were for the fluid from the pump to go - but Iv never seen that before.


One thing to keep in mind:
5 amps of current at 12 volts is 60 watts. If you have five amps and no motor is running, there has to be 60 watts of heat being dissipated SOMEWHERE. Ten amps would be 120 watts. If this current is thru the starter, you'd not know it, as you have a LOT of steel in that area to heat up, but if it's in any small item, the warmth should be a good clue.

 

.


I'm confused, did the OP say his siren 'screamed' when he worked the battery cables? If so, I do not think the siren PCB is damaged. Good to unplug to check though. Another thing, the siren will scream if plugged in and working when the POS cable is removed first. Any time you remove the battery (or a cable or two), remove the NEG first. This will insure the serviceable siren will not cause you to impact the hood. Finally, the car takes a time to 'sleep' the electronics. I do not know if any doors/hatch are still keeping the car awake from sleep, so I would open the windows and close the doors/hatch. That leaves the hood but I do not think that keeps any modules awake if the hood is open. Good luck!


.

 

So when the Batt originally died, I tried to charge it in place, and the Alarm sounded, forcing me to remove the Batt.
If the Trunk is left open, (where I currently store the tools I am using) the draw is 0.8A, the Door is a bit more, but I dont recall what it was.
I did not know that about the Batt cables, I have always removed the Neg first, now I have a good reason to. : ]

Thanks,

 

Yeah, I thought I would find it quickly originally, just from the smoke it would most likely produce. But then I figured it was going to ground, and it was absorbing and dissipating the energy. Honestly I do not understand where the energy goes (my assumption was ground) when Diodes fail in an Alternator, is why I knee jerk replaced it.
I tried to operate the Top yesterday after work, and then checked the draw, but it was the same 0.15A, then to 0.03A. And it still would not operate correctly. I hope to cycle the Top manually this afternoon, and check the motors, and look for hydrophilic leaks. My thinking is, if there is an "out-of-sync situation" maybe this will correct it? I am not sure where the "Top Module" is, but I am sure it's addressed on this site somewhere.

Originally after seeing the 5A go to 1A after simply jacking up the car, I thought maybe a wire is pinched going to the Top, but now I am thinking that wire would be fused, and secondly would only be "hot" when the ignition is on. Am I correct in my thinking here?

Either way, I plan to get the Top working (as I plan to order a new one as soon as these issues are cleared up) then monitor my energy consumption, till the issue arises again. Not sure what else I can do at this point.
Thanks,

 

The top module is right in front of the pump in the driver side rear wheel well. That is where you would also check the fluid level. If the fluid is low the top will not operate properly.

 

I kinda got the idea his siren was MAYBE flaky. Mine has NEVER chirped or squeaked when I disconnect or connect the battery - and yes, mine DOES work and is STILL connected. (Probably about at end of life, tho.)

 

The current is flowing thru ground, but energy does not "go to ground", it has to be dissipated either as light, mechanical energy/motion or heat. In almost EVERY case of unwanted current, the current is flowing thru a path it does not belong in and is dissipated as heat. But if this heat is dissipated in a huge hunk of metal or iron, you may never notice it as the more mass you have, the more heat energy it takes to heat the mass up.

I wrote all of this to address where stuff is:
https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...p-sensors.html

My re-sync video is here:
DO not let yourself become discouraged. I have two friends here in DFW, both spent $400 on "diagnostics" that fixed nothing. One at a time, they came to the house and we worked on their tops. I got one top working while he was here. THe other was so messed up (he bought the car as a basket case) I proved that the issue was a sensor but could not isolate which one. We could fake the system out and make the top move, proving his mechanical/hydraulic systems were OK. Having little troubleshooting background, after several more phone calls with me, he found it - and had his top working in maybe three weeks. That gent is 83 years old and said he'd not fixed ANYTHING in 20 years - he was a very happy guy; and he impressed me to no end.

 

Cant express how much I appreciate the help with this, Pizza Guy I have learned a lot from your manuals, wish I had them decades ago.
So the Bat Drain is still gone, not sure where it went, but it's gone as of right now. I still look for it any time I park it for more then 8 hours or so.
So like I said, I cycled the top manually, and it quit working all together, would not even unlatch. The only thing that would happen was the little red light would lite and the windows would drop?
So since the Drain was gone, I decided I would drive it, mostly to work (about 30 miles) and deal with the top manually, until I had some time to deal with it. Time is hard for me right now, so I found a shop about 50 miles away last week that was willing to look into it (they do Top installations), and made an appointment for yesterday. Like I said I have been driving it, and I drove the car to work Monday, and when I went to leave, (after midnight) I wasnt thinking, got in and pushed the button for the top and it worked, and again when I got home, and about 10 more times since.
I am not naive enough to think the issue will not come back, but from what I learned here I think I will be able to resolve it. In the Meantime I bought a new Beige Top from BAS, and look forward to installing it. I will update when I do.
Thanks again