I removed my relay control module and the sodering looks great. My 04 Crossfire began failing on me at traffic lights and 5 minutes later will start up. A couple of times I got off work and went to the car and it failed to start. Dealer says its the relay module, and not covered under my 3 year warranty I purchased. Wanted to charge $500. My other mechanic says its the air injection pump. His diagnosis shows not enough electric current coming out. I removed the MAF and sprayed it with MAF cleaner and car has not died since, but engine light comes on for code P0410. Car did shake slightly this week and made me think it would die again. Both parts are expensive. Could the relay module look good and still be bad or should I replace the air injection pump?
Thanks for any ideas.

 

Tighed1, is it possible that the relay module could be defective even if all the solders are in good condition? I'm trying to determine if my RCM is defective like the dealer says or is it my air injection pump. I pulled the RCM and they all look fine. Getting code P0410.

 

1 - Phone is a Samsung galaxy Note 3, and I have about 6-8 other cameras, and I use the Note the most unless I need a good long lens.
2 - I had no problems, and wanted to prevent problems. I just got the Crossfire 4 weeks ago, with 5600 miles on it. It now has about 6800 miles.
Being all relays, you should be able to jumper/bypass them, no solid state going on. Let me re-read your posts to see what all symptoms you have, and what does and doesn't work. I am a noob on the Crossfire, but not on vehicles in general.

 

Pioneer 4X4,


I'll be glad for any thoughts you have on this.


Congrats on your new Crossfire. When I was looking, there was an alabaster roadster in Memphis with the Cedar interior. It was a beautiful car, but more dollars than I could stand. Mine is higher mileage, but would pass for new - at least until now. If I had it to do over, I'd not hesitate. You can expect some problems, but you can expect to enjoy the car as long as you have it. In five years, you'll still smile when you look at it.


I switched in a used pulse module last night and tested it this morning. Same symptoms, no change, no start. Could be another bad module, but I'm betting on another problem. Will relook the RCM.


Michael

 

That fan you hear might be the secondary air injection pump, it is electric and runs only below a certain temperature when the car is started


From the service manual
AIR INJECTION 25 - 31
-
Air is allowed to enter the exhaust when the PCM simultaneously
actuates the air pump relay, air pump (1), and air
pump switchover solenoid (4) after engine startup for up to 2
1/2 minutes. The following conditions must also be met in
order for the system to become active:
² Coolant temperature >10°C (50°F) but <60°C (140°F)
² Engine speed <3000 rpm
² Throttle valve not wide open
After an actuation, the air injection system will remain deactivated
until the coolant temperature drops from >60°C (140°F)
to <40°C (104°F).

These posts are getting confusing,
1 - does it crank at all? (if not, try catching it in gear to see if it runs, I'd use 2nd or 3rd if you have a place to try)
2 - if so, does it fire briefly, then die? (if so, might be security/theft)


Do you have a fuel pressure tester? You should have pressure with the key on, before you try to start, they are cheap, and I think some places loan/rent them as well. If no fuel pressure, but ignition does turn on the dash and everything else, then you have a starting point, maybe the RCM or something else. Don't forget to test the fuses associated with it.

 

There is also a tiny little fan in the box with the RCM, PTCM and BCM ........

 

Pioneer4X4,


I can get confused with my own posts. To summarize:


I have had no previous problem in five years I've had it. Smooth, strong, consistent.
Had it Eurocharged flashed/tuned about three years ago.
Trip to Kentucky late May, no problems but in extremely heavy rains much of the trip there and back.
I'm in a very rural area, found a rat in the garage and feces in floorboards and trunk, so suspected damage to wiring. None found so far.
No noise from starter.
Thermometer now reads -36 degrees. Don't know how that would relate.
Resoldered connections on RCM per forum go-by. No change. This could still be the issue.
New battery, just to be sure. No problems with previous battery or charging issues.


I measure 12v at starter, but nothing at starter solenoid. I have 12v through clutch safety switch to pulse module pin B, but no voltage at pin F with key and start position.


Substituted a used pulse module with no change.


If I jumper the solenoid post to starter motor 12v, it will engage. That was unintentional.


I have not considered trying to pull it to start, or put 12v to the solenoid with the key on, assuming that many parameters must be met for it to run. I am fairly comfortable under the hood, as long as the car has points under the distributer cap.


I have not checked fuel pressure but can do that.


Thanks for any ideas. Will hold off on trying to pull it to start it for a while longer.


Michael

 

If you can jumper the starter solenoid, I would do that while key is on. ENSURE CAR IS SECURE AND IN NEUTRAL, I know you know that, but it could move, start and keep going! Maybe even try with a helper in the car.
BUT first thing, check for fuel pressure, with none, nothing will happen anyway, and if none, I can only assume that the car isn't being told to start. Might be a security issue, does the car respond to the key at all, does the remote lock and unlock the car?
Have you disconnected the battery for a bit to reset all the electronics? (I had to do that on mine once, no root cause found yet.) (I guess you did since you said new battery...)

 

Michael, on the pull to start thing, I know the starter won't normally engage unless the clutch is depressed, I don't know how it will act when the clutch is engaged .......

 

Pioneer4X4,


I think I will try 12v to the solenoid, after my wife gets home FRI. I've learned the hard way, when being careful wasn't enough, you need someone available to call for an ambulance.


I had to go out and try it - the key does lock and unlock the car as it should.


Michael

 

Ala_xfire,


I removed enough to have access to the clutch switch, so can tape it closed. I think it will be smart to wait until Cathy can help me though. She's pretty good in the garage, and knows how to stop the bleeding.


EDIT - Was thinking about jumpering the solenoid, not pulling, when I typed the above. But, I'd expect it to act like an normal old car; just let out on the clutch in maybe third gear. Starter wouldn't be involved. I wonder what the PMC would think, though.

Michael

 

Update, if you're still with me


In the past few days I've substituted in a partsyard pulse module, and a known good RCM, with no change. Some noise from relays and such, but no fire to the starter solenoid. Many thanks for tips and suggestions. And especially for help with parts!


I've mentioned the goofy temp reading of -36 degrees. I searched and got several hits. Apparently that's the default figure when the sensor bad (open) or unplugged. From the info I pasted below, it could have some bearing, but nobody mentioned a no-start failure associated. May be time to tear into the dash wiring. Any other thoughts at this point?


Thanks
Michael


PASTED INFO - Probably. Make sure you are looking at the correct sensor. This sensor is located in the lower louvre on the driver's side. Through a bit of research I believe it actually has two different types of signals being sent from the sensor. One is directed towards the dash to show you the ambient temp and the other signal is sent to the ECU to inform the ECU of changing ambient temps. If the dash sensor reads -36* there is a good chance your ECu is receiving the same. If it is NOT -36* outside this will cause poor gas mileage as the ECU is cumping more fuel to the engine to help maintain proper engine temps (in a -36* environment). Replacing the ambient sensor is a cheap fix, $30 shipped from chryslerparts.net. If your wires are visibly disconnected I would seek out a Chrysler mechanic to diagnose and propose a fix for the issue.

 

I know a temp reading is sent from the MAF sensor.. and common sense says this is what the ECU see's to adjust parameters with. Mice have actually severed my wires on the temp probe with no ill effects short of making me think its damn cold outside .. LOL

 

Did some more checking this afternoon. All underhood fuses are good. Battery is new. Old battery was not weak, drained or failing after a month or more sitting idle. But, it was a logical thing to replace, and the old one is happy on the tractor.


Battery drain does not seem inordinate, based on measured voltage; however....


I noticed that when I put the negative cable back on to check something I get a fair spark. Put my meter between and got what seems to be an odd but repeatable result.


Initial draw, for "milliseconds" is around four or five amps (amps, NOT mAmps). It drops so fast I can't be sure. It drops rapidly to approximately 170 mA (not mV, sorry, I know better Ala_xfire), then after a few seconds it drops to approx. 122 mA and holds steady until I get bored and stop.


Will pull fuses and try to isolate this. From searching the forum, 50mA seems to be about the high end of draw if all is well. Maybe this is a failing battery pack on the security system. But I get no error msgs on the instrument panel.


With this new info, any lights going off as to why I've got a no-start condition?


More to follow.


Michael

 

Have you checked fuel pressure yet?
Also, with odd temp reading, maybe a ground is missing. I don't know details, but I think I remember reading something about people checking or adding grounds.
But I would check if fuel pump is getting power, and if it gets pressure if it does.

 

Pioneer4x4,


I still haven't checked fuel pressure, but in reading the FSM over the weekend, one of the fuel system tests involves emptying the system and starting the car until it fails to start. That pointed me in another direction. Even so, I found the process, range of expected pressure, and what I'll need to check it. The image of the tool is not similar to my old vacuum/fuel pressure gauge. I will be buying one. I suspect it will connect to most fuel rails.


Thanks for mentioning grounds. Don't know where to start, except the wiring diagrams, which are a challenge for me. I'm slowly getting there.


I just started a semester of auto repair at a nearby community college. Happens that we started with electrical systems. The instructor stressed repeatedly that really strange, goofy things usually are the result of an improper, inadequate, or unintended ground.


I will update as I go with this.


Thanks again!


Michael

 

DOn't forget to ask around. Some parts stores will loan them/rent for deposit fee only.

 

Fret not over 122 mA !

 

KDW4Him,


I really didn't know what was acceptable, but at this point, I want to find trouble. I've got a no-start and am running out of things I can address.


The car sat for two-three weeks between the trip to Kentucky and the time I found the no-start. Battery was five years old, and voltage was still over 12, so I agree that the drain doesn't seem to have had much impact, and I don't know if there's any correlation between the current drain and the no-start. Still at a loss.


Thanks.


Michael

 

That is normal current - the rush at first is normal as well.
Dont' let that distract you.