Wheels, Brakes, Tires and Suspension Open discussion for tires/rims/lowering springs/brakes etc...

Question about lug bolts..

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Old Dec 31, 2012 | 07:27 PM
  #21 (permalink)  
32krazy!'s Avatar
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From: murfreesboro,tn
Default Re: Question about lug bolts..

Originally Posted by maxcichon
Now, THAT would require an R&R.

You're still up, Gramps?
yeah researching some porsche mods
 
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Old Dec 31, 2012 | 07:28 PM
  #22 (permalink)  
bluecoupe's Avatar
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Default Re: Question about lug bolts..

Originally Posted by 32krazy!
for peace of mind and to know that the job was done properly the answers would be yes, yes and yes.

i wont even start to ask if you indexed the plugs to ensure a complete burn!
thanks Steve! Nope, didn't clock the plugs, any advise how to position for complete burn?
 
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Old Dec 31, 2012 | 07:31 PM
  #23 (permalink)  
bluecoupe's Avatar
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Default Re: Question about lug bolts..

Originally Posted by maxcichon
You are @ 18 now?

I'd leave them. But, that's just me!
I'm at 19.5........
 
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Old Dec 31, 2012 | 10:17 PM
  #24 (permalink)  
GraphiteGhost's Avatar
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Default Re: Question about lug bolts..

Over the decades of my own tire rotations and wheel cleaning/tire cleaning, I have used one staple of a healthy lifestyle. Good ole Vaseline. I put a dab on the top few threads of a lug bolt (in the case of the XF) and for decades, the studs. After running the lugs in to the end, I back em back out and take any excess off. Until about the late 80's, I never torqued lugnuts. Ever since using the Vaseline on the studs, I have never had rust or any type of corrosion. After acquiring the torque wrench around the 1990 timeframe, I have torqued the lugnuts and recently, the XF lug bolts. In the last @ 3 1/2 years with the XF, I again used the vasi and torqued the bolts. No rust, no problems. I believe the vasi does a combination of two things after application. Normal evaporation (if you could call it that) over a period of time, and accelerated evaporation (when the wheels/rotors heat up from use). I make dang sure there is not enough to contaminate the pads/rotors and its never been a concern or problem. The super clean non rusting easily removable and installed lugnuts and lately, lug bolts are the result.
 
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Old Dec 31, 2012 | 10:24 PM
  #25 (permalink)  
32krazy!'s Avatar
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From: murfreesboro,tn
Default Re: Question about lug bolts..

Originally Posted by GraphiteGhost
Over the decades of my own tire rotations and wheel cleaning/tire cleaning, I have used one staple of a healthy lifestyle. Good ole Vaseline. I put a dab on the top few threads of a lug bolt (in the case of the XF) and for decades, the studs. After running the lugs in to the end, I back em back out and take any excess off. Until about the late 80's, I never torqued lugnuts. Ever since using the Vaseline on the studs, I have never had rust or any type of corrosion. After acquiring the torque wrench around the 1990 timeframe, I have torqued the lugnuts and recently, the XF lug bolts. In the last @ 3 1/2 years with the XF, I again used the vasi and torqued the bolts. No rust, no problems. I believe the vasi does a combination of two things after application. Normal evaporation (if you could call it that) over a period of time, and accelerated evaporation (when the wheels/rotors heat up from use). I make dang sure there is not enough to contaminate the pads/rotors and its never been a concern or problem. The super clean non rusting easily removable and installed lugnuts and lately, lug bolts are the result.
use stainless steel or titanium lugbolts and you will never have to lube your bolts again!
 
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Old Dec 31, 2012 | 10:29 PM
  #26 (permalink)  
GraphiteGhost's Avatar
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Default Re: Question about lug bolts..

Originally Posted by 32krazy!
use stainless steel or titanium lugbolts and you will never have to lube your bolts again!


Hmmm, lets see... SS lugs/bolts cost ? Vasi jar cost $... I think I'll stay with the vasi. I guess I'm just a thrifty old fashioned backyard amature mechanic.
 
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Old Dec 31, 2012 | 10:36 PM
  #27 (permalink)  
32krazy!'s Avatar
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From: murfreesboro,tn
Default Re: Question about lug bolts..

Originally Posted by GraphiteGhost
Hmmm, lets see... SS lugs/bolts cost ? Vasi jar cost $... I think I'll stay with the vasi. I guess I'm just a thrifty old fashioned backyard amature mechanic.
they dont cost any more than the ecu tune you have or the 74mm t/b mod you did. its all about priorities
 
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Old Dec 31, 2012 | 10:51 PM
  #28 (permalink)  
GraphiteGhost's Avatar
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From: Central South Carolina
Default Re: Question about lug bolts..

Originally Posted by 32krazy!
they dont cost any more than the ecu tune you have or the 74mm t/b mod you did. its all about priorities

Ahh so true, but you miss the main thing about the tune and the TB, they both increased power. I don't think SS lugs/bolts does a thing for power.
 
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Old Jan 3, 2013 | 08:24 AM
  #29 (permalink)  
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From: MOFN, AL, 70 miles from George
Default Re: Question about lug bolts..

I received this from NGK:

[IHello,

We do not suggest using anti-seize as we have a plating on the plugs that will act as a release agent upon removal. For torque we will need to see between 17-21 ft./lb. as this is a 14mm thread in an aluminum cylinder head.


Best Regards,

Jason Norwood
NGK Spark Plugs ( USA) Inc.
Technical and Training Specialist - Aftermarket Division
46929 Magellan Drive
Wixom, MI 48393
Office: (248)-926-7107
Fax: (248)-926-6938
Email: jnorwood@ngksparkplugs.com
ASE Certified
Ngksparkplugs.com
][/I]
 
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Old Jan 3, 2013 | 02:43 PM
  #30 (permalink)  
bluecoupe's Avatar
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From: Grimsby, Ontario
Default Re: Question about lug bolts..

Originally Posted by maxcichon
I received this from NGK:

[IHello,

We do not suggest using anti-seize as we have a plating on the plugs that will act as a release agent upon removal. For torque we will need to see between 17-21 ft./lb. as this is a 14mm thread in an aluminum cylinder head.


Best Regards,

Jason Norwood
NGK Spark Plugs ( USA) Inc.
Technical and Training Specialist - Aftermarket Division
46929 Magellan Drive
Wixom, MI 48393
Office: (248)-926-7107
Fax: (248)-926-6938
Email: jnorwood@ngksparkplugs.com
ASE Certified
Ngksparkplugs.com
][/I]
Thanks Max, that's consistant with NGK's chart on their website (18-21.6) for 14mm plugs in aluminum heads. Web forum opinions on using anti-seize on spark plugs in aluminum heads are all over the map and there are some that believe NGK's anti-seize position is a CYA against liability for damage caused by over torqued plugs. There's no concensus on how much the torque spec will be out with wet threads only that it could be from 10-30% greater than torque load indicated, but I don't know how they know that? Additionally my torque wrench ( 10-100 ft/lb range) is accurate + or - 4% at 20% of full load (18ft/lbs). In all likely hood I am overtorqued but not by much, too much? possibly. Maybe best case senario is I'm at the top end of the range. Also, using socket extensions adds to the torque load and there is a calculation for that too. Interestingly, NGK says plugs that have crush gaskets can be re-installed after removal by tightening them 1/12th turn after gasket contact. Who knows what that torque value is? So, if I remove the plugs, clean off the anti-seize with brake cleaner and re-install per NGK recommendation, I still won't know what torque the plugs are at? Will the anti-seize left on the head threads cause an overtorque condition? Yes, I have found a source on line that sells replacement spark plug gaskets (crush washers) but removal of the flattened ones will likely bugger-up the spark plug threads. Many on this forum have advocated using anti-seize on spark plug threads, but made no mention of what torque value they applied. I'd be interested to hear of their experiences. So, very likely I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill and yes, I am obessing.......but what else would you expect from a Crossfire ( make it 2) owner.
 
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Old Jan 3, 2013 | 03:53 PM
  #31 (permalink)  
maxcichon's Avatar
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From: MOFN, AL, 70 miles from George
Default Re: Question about lug bolts..

Originally Posted by maxcichon
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/tb-...1antisieze.pdf

Now, to let my feeling be known:

I've been building and repairing machinery for over 30 (!) years. I'm a HUGE fan of lubricants for every minute of it. I specialize in UHV systems and ion sources for particle accelerators. Many of these parts get really hot. Some I can't even use antiseize on-they can reach the brazing or break-down point of the constituent materials.
So I find another lube. I keep a jar of grapite and one of Boron Nitride powder in my shop for high temp uses. Spark plugs just don't get hot enough for it. At least the threads.
I apply it using a flux brush in vanishingly small amounts and wipe off 99% of it before insertion.
And I reduce torque by 20%.

I use it on my lug bolts and nuts too. Same whisper amount and wipe off any I can see.

One is only trying to treat the surface. Not use it as caulk.

Or glue.

Here's a chart on temperatures vs. metal temps:

How to tell what temperature a glowing object (metals) might be:

Doesn’t really matter what the emitter is…stainless steel, cast iron, tungsten in your light bulb, the temps are about the same for a given color. Generally accepted colors/temps are:

C F Color

400 752 Red heat, visible in the dark
474 885 Red heat, visible in the twilight
525 975 Red heat, visible in the daylight
581 1077 Red heat, visible in the sunlight
700 1292 Dark red
800 1472 Dull cherry-red
900 1652 Cherry-red
1000 1832 Bright cherry-red
1100 2012 Orange-red

C= Centigrade
F= Farenheit
Bluecoupe,

I refer you to my earlier post stating my preference and application procedures.
 
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Old Jan 3, 2013 | 05:39 PM
  #32 (permalink)  
bluecoupe's Avatar
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From: Grimsby, Ontario
Default Re: Question about lug bolts..

Originally Posted by maxcichon
Bluecoupe,

I refer you to my earlier post stating my preference and application procedures.
Gotcha, whisper thin amount of anti-seized torqued to 16.8 ft/lbs.
 
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