I took my key out of the ignition when I parked earlier and the car was still running. With the manual shifter in neutral I released the clutch and brake pedals and then the car shut off (parking brake was set). With the key still out of the ignition I pressed the brake pedal again. The dash indicator lights turned on, and the fuel pump turned on. I haven't seen anything like this happen before. Any idea where to start? I'm wondering if there's an electrical short somewhere.

 

Other symptoms I've noticed: The signal indicator on the dash is on, but all my lights and signals work. Turning on the headlights or parking lights disables the cruise control. The car alarm randomly goes off.

I tried removing the key from the ignition with the headlights on and with them off. The engine only continues to run with the key out if the parking or headlights are on. If they are off the car just shuts off.

 

A few suggestions (others may have better):

1) How old is the battery?
2) Have you checked the Relay Control Module (RCM)? See https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...control+module. You may have a bad solder joint in there which can do crazy things to the car.

 

1) I'm not 100% sure of the battery's age. I just bought the car. The previous owner said it is 6 months old.

2) I yanked the RCM and soldered some really bad solder connections on the circuit board. I'm still having the same symptoms. However, the service engine light for the "secondary air injection system," and the "lean fuel burn" has not come back on. I may have inadvertently fixed that problem.

Somehow the issue seems to have to do with the brake lights. The "light out" indicator on the dash board only comes on when the brake lights come on (ie: pressing the brake pedal with the headlights off, or turning on the headlights). I replaced all the indicator bulbs so I don't have a bulb out.

I may pull the instrument panel off and see if the indicator behind the panel is pulling too much voltage. The sensor may have failed. I'm not sure how the brakes, indicator lights, and cruise control issues are all interrelated. I wonder if they connect to a different control module other than the relay control module.

 

So I decided to pull out my BCM (Body Control Module) and check the circuit board. As soon as I took it out I could hear a rattle.



image-746200398.jpg

The rattle is coming from one of these three relays.



image-2125071673.jpg

I don't know what they control but any rattle doesn't sound good. I'm gonna see if I can solder a new one to the board and fix the issue.

 

BCM wasn't the issue. I ran some diagnostics on the Illumination Control Module (AKA headlight switch). One of the symptoms is that my brake lights only illuminate with the car turned on, AND they are always on as if I'm braking with the headlights on.

When I did resistance tests with a multimeter I have continuity. When I test voltage from the ICM to the brake lamp harness I don't get voltage unless the key is on, or the headlights are on. According to the repair manual I should be getting voltage with the key turned off.

The new unit should be delivered in a few days. I'll post an update after I get the new unit. I'm hoping the other weird symptoms are a result of the ICM being faulty.

 

I'd stop right there. Based on what I see in the manual, section 8 under "Power Distribution", I'd say someone has put a remote-start kit in the car that YOU don't know about and it is circumventing the ignition switch.

If you look at pages 8W-10-9 and the pages that follow, you will get the point - I see no battery supply to the PTCM that does not go thru the switch. Exception would be the "engine control relay" on the RCM.

For the engine to keep running, the engine control relay and fuel pump relay would have to be energized and the PTCM would have to be powered up as well.

Can I suggest you drop the under-dash panel below the steering column and look at the harness on the back of the ignition switch? I'd suspect that would be the easiest point for someone to have put a remote-start kit in.

Also, such kits often use brake or other lights to signal that the system is active - my neighbor had one in the late 90's that, when she held the FOB up to the window in the kitchen and she hit the button, the door locks would lock, the engine would start, and (not sure when in the process, don't remember) the brake lights would flash indicating........... something. Don't remember what now.

Hers was an aftermarket kit that a local garge put in. She liked it, never had an issue with it that I know of, but it took the garage 3 days to make it work.

 

That thought never occurred to me. Good suggestion. Either way it looks like the ICM failed so I'll replace it. If the symptoms continue I'll see if there's anything wired up for remote start. I'm the third owner and the other guy mentioned nothing about that feature. He bought the car from Carmax.

I've been suspecting the ICM this whole time because of the brake light issues, and also because I pulled the front left turn signal bulb to replace a burned out bulb, and noticed one the electrical contacts for the harness was burned through. It looks like a short occurred somewhere, and I assume it must have messed up the ICM. I soldered the harness and it works now. My question is what caused the short to begin with?

 

The burnt contact was because the contact was not touching the bulb hard enough and caused sparks, a common fault.
Harness contact is not what I am talking about though, what is that anyway if that is what you mean?

 

The service manual refers to the "harness" as the bulb housing. Refer to page 8L-98 for service info. It's the plastic thing you place the bulb into, and then turn the housing into the headlamp assembly.

 

So I tried using a new ICM and I still have the same symptoms. Now that I've eliminated the module I will explore the remote start system you mentioned.

I've never encountered one. Do you have any idea where to find the wiring and components of one that has been installed so I can remove them?

 

That is not my definition or what the Service Manual means, the bulb housing, the plastic thing, is a part of the harness.

The harness in this case is all of the wiring and its component parts which would include the bulb housing at one end and the connectors to the ICM at the other end and everything in between.

The page you refer to reads slightly different in the 2004 and 2005 SRT/roadster manuals, so I'm not sure which one you are referring to. But I do not interpret either to say what you understand them to say.

No matter, who cares anyway.

 

I tested all the grounds I can reach. The following tested voltage with the engine off, and the engine on.

ENGINE BAY
Battery 12.51, 14.52
G100 12.52, 14.52, left side of engine compartment
G101 12.52, 14.52, right side of engine compartment
G104 12.53, 14.51, top front of engine
G107 12.53, 14.52, right side of engine compartment, battery negative ground

PASSENGER AREA
G200 12.53, 14.46, behind left side of instrument panel at base of windshield
G201 12.53, 14.46, lower left footwell behind kickpanel
G202 under center console at the occupant restraint controller
G203 under the center console
G204 12.53, 14.47, lower right footwell behind kickpanel
G205 12.53, 14.50, upper left rear passenger compartment
G206 12.53, 14.48, lower right footwell behind kickpanel

TRUNK
G300 12.53, 14.50, left luggage compartment behind trim panel
G301 12.53, 14.50, lower right luggage compartment behind trim panel
G303 12.53, 14.50, upper right luggage compartment behind trim panel

I have not removed the center console to reach grounds at G202 and G203. The following components are grounded at these locations:

G202 Occupant Restraint Controller, Driver Seat Belt Tensioner Switch, Passenger Seat Belt Tensioner Switch, Passenger Seat Occupant Simulator, Left Side Impact Sensor, Right Side Impact Sensor

G203 Left Heated Seat Cushion, Left Heated Seat Back, Right Heated Seat Cushion, Right Heated Seat Back, Shift Lever Assembly, Park Brake Switch, Radio, Power Mirror Switch

I don't suspect the G202 and G303 grounds are related to my issues. I'm gonna go after the security module next since issues include the alarm system tripping its self. The alarm module in the trunk is wired to the ICM. I'm curious to see if the Security Module is faulty, and drawing current through the ICM.

 

I looked for a similar problem on a Mercedes forum and found this.(click)
Seems this problem is quite common, I hope it's your problem.

 

It would be wired in around the ignition switch, I would think. This means dropping the panel under the key, this is described in our "Sticky Key" mod here -> https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...n-key-fix.html

100/80 seems to have stumbled onto something - but I do not understand how the engine can run with the key off as this would stop the plugs from firing, would it not Dave?

I just dont understand how a vacuum line could cause this.

 

I just went back after supper and followed up on my post, I guess its not the problem.
My guess is it is an ignition switch problem.

 

I decided to test the ignition switch (IS). The wiring diagram indicates that Splice Block 100 (SB100) feeds wiring harness pins 5 and 7 on the B(+) side of the circuit, and outputs through 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6 on the B(-) side. I did not remove the harness from the IS.

I performed continuity tests to the IS.
SB100 to SB102: Pos 0 (OFF) no continuity. Pos 1 (ACC), Pos 2 (ON), Pos 3 (START) has continuity.
SB100 to ICM 3D connector: Pos 0, Pos 1 has continuity. Pos 2, Pos 3, no continuity.
SB100 to SB101: Pos 0, Pos 1 no continuity, Pos 2, Pos 3 has continuity.
SB100 to Fuse 33: Pos 0, Pos 1, Pos 3, no continuity. Pos 2 has continuity.

I did not test continuity from SB100 to C200. Current flows from SB100, through the IS when it is in Pos 3 (START), and on to connector C200 (to PCM, Pulse Module, and Clutch Interlock Switch). I assume this is fine since the car cranks up and starts.

Basically since I was not able to get access to the back of the IS, I tested continuity from the splice block that precedes the wiring harness, to the next connection in the circuit. By connecting a multimeter I was able to turn the key through the different positions and get continuity that appears to match what the schematic shows. The IS seems to be working fine.

Replacing the ICM did not alleviate symptoms. Since the symptoms seem to stem from operating the headlamp switch and brake pedal I suspect the issue lies down the line from this module.

I believe testing the Central Locking Pump / Security System Module (CLPSSM) would be a good idea next. This is connected to the ICM, and I've been having problems with the alarm siren going off on its own. The CLPSSM is connected to the Body Control Module (BCM) via the CAN B BUS. It seems conceivable that if this module fails it can really do some screwy things. The BCM does not directly control anything that is displaying a symptom though.

 

I performed a bunch of tests on the Central Locking Pump / Security System Module (CLP/SSM). I found multiple tests that failed. I am referencing pages in the 2004 Chrysler Crossfire Service Manual. The following are tests I performed that Failed:

CLP/SSM Undervoltage (8Q-2), Test 4. Voltage of the Fused B(+) circuit (cavity 4) at the CLP/SSM C2 herness connector. Is voltage above 11 volts? Yes >> Replace the Central Locking Pump / Security System Module. My voltage reading was 12.08

CAN B Bus (+) Circuit Failure, Test 3. Measure the resistance between ground and the CAN B Bus (+) circuit at the CLP/SSM harness connector. Is the resistance below 10k ohms? No >> Replace the Central Locking Pump / Security System Module. I was unable to get any resistance reading from the Multimeter.

I am going to order a replacement CLP/SSM and see if this resolves the issue. I'll update the post if this is the solution.

 

So before purchasing and installing a new CLP/SSM I decided to do some other tests. I am getting 1.5 ohms of resistance and about 4-5 volts of current in the CAN B Bus (+ and -) connections from the BCM to the CLP/SSM. The manual indicates that anything above 1 ohm should be repaired for and open circuit, and any presence of voltage should be repaired for a short.

I think I may have a short. I don't see any strange looking wires at the harnesses. I can't see anything down the wires that looks burnt or exposed (although I haven't checked the whole thing). Anyone out there have electrical experience to know what some increased resistance and voltage would indicate?

I wonder if I have an exposed section of wire that is barely shorted to ground.

 

If you got no reading, then the resistance is over 10,000 ohms, that is for sure.