he's a Browns fan, so maybe he's dumber than i originally thought.

 

I agree with the vast majority of the post here re: kids and the educational system etc. In most cases, I believe it is the parents who are the most impacting on this whole scenario. We're generally talking about parents of school age children, not the young adults.

As a psychotherapist, performing in home social work, I have found that parents know that their kids are a mess, and are so because of relatively poor parenting skills. Here's the double bind, if I accept parenting skill education, then it says I'm a bad parent, but if I don't, I must then place blame either on my child, which as a product of me it makes me bad, or I can blame the system and not do anything, and in that way I am let off the hook. This happens among wealthy or poor families, in my experience.

Then those kids have kids and they utilize the same inept skills they experienced. And the cycle spirals downward. None of us are free from this, but it can be minimized if people stopped blaming everyone else for what they do, and simply took responsibility for their own actions. I believe the lawyers have had a huge impact on this type of thinking, and really don't want to acknowledge it-preferring to think that they are providing justice. But it's not just them, it's the entire system that penalizes responsibility and truth telling.

 

I thought this started out about young adults posting on the forum, not school age kids .

My daughter was raise right, done very well in school and is book smart as they get. I know for a fact she was not into drinking or drugs, she was totally against either and made it very vocal that anybody that was into either were total looser's. She was a fairly good kid, the only problems she had was telling the truth, but was a pretty responsable kid. The real problems didn't start until between 19 or 20 when we no longer had any control over her. When my wife & I would try to talk to her about the direction she was going, she would just tell us she was an adult and for us to mind our own business. She would tell us that what she does would not have any effect on my us and the famous words "I made my bed & I will lie in it". You would not believe how much she has aged my wife & I since the age of 20, nor the money she has cost us. We would only see her if she needed money, but we pretty well quit giving her money at the age of 22. Then she wound up pregnant at 23, then we had no choice but to support her because the farther was in the middle of a divorse and went back to his wife. The same thing happened to her at 25, with a different guy. She hardly recieves support from either of the farthers and they have nothing to do with the kids nor her. So we have no choice but to support her now, she does have a CNA license she works for a while then quit's with some dumb reason, but most likely was fired. I kid you not she has had between 15 & 20 job's since the age of 20, she has been out of work for about 6 months now, but I'm told by her mother that she is suppose to start a job this week. Her biggest problems are telling the truth, not having respect for anything or anybody and placing blame on anybody but herself if something does not go her way.

 

The reason I asked if he was from PA. is because an old girlfriends relatives were from Altoona PA. and when ever they would visit I'd hear the term "Youns" used quite a bit, and I had never heard it before that.

Browns fan huh? That's just sad.

Steve, Onehundred80 never said anything about "young adults", he just mentioned "rude" people.
I'm the one that said it's just common courtesy, an it just doesn't seem to be that important anymore, and hasn't been for a very long time.
Not everybody here on this forum that's guilty of not saying please or thank you when helped out by another member is young.
I was simply pointing out "manners" are usually, (and should be) instilled into a youngster at home.
But as you have pointed out, there are exceptions to every rule.

 

Sorry to get on a rant, but when I really get to thinking about how the US has changed in the past 15 or 20 year's I get just mad as hell. And I used my daughter as example because she goes off about how screwed up the world is and it's people like her that are part of why the world is what it is today. And that gets me even more pi$$ed off.

 

Steve, it's funny how "Daughters" can get their "Fathers" blood pressure all pumped up, isn't it?
It doesn't matter how old they get, they"ll always be our "little girl".

 

The old saying` You can judge a man by the company he keeps' is very true and I used this to judge my sons progress through life. Thankfully my wife and I thought his friends were pretty square at all times.

 

Yeah, it's funny how you can dislike someone so much, but at the same time love them too. This Christmas I knew she was out of work and probably spending a lot of time at home. She had a small TV that she of course lost the remote for and she had to stick her finger in a little hole to turn her DVD player on, it's remote is gone too. So with the digital switch coming up I bought her and the kids a new big screen LCD TV, a new home theater system and a new entertainment center to put it all in. The kids love watching cartoons in BIG like at Boppa & Mimi's house .

 

Thank You CrossFire Forum members for all your help and suggestions this great forum offers! Squirrel Crusher

 

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I find it strange that you--the sarcastic one--would ask for more feedback.

You don't remember your response to Waynesworld when he told the member-in-need to use his key in the drivers door? His response was very short, precise and something no one else had suggested.

Your response did not deal with the problem, instead it appeared to criticize Waynesworld for his correct response.

Your exact response: What a nice pleasant reply, you must be a saint.

Why write anything at all at this point? The problem was solved and needed no further back-handed comments.

Others may not agree but I think that is your problem.

Jim

 

My words exactly, it would appear that you are among those that read cheap comments in every line written as I stated in my later reply. My comment to Waynesworld was to complement him on his succinct reply when others would have written some snide comment instead, rather like this comment of yours now in fact.

I have noted that you have used the word appeared in this comment so I assume that you are in some doubt as to my true meaning, although you suspect that it is some backhanded comment. With your lack of aptitude for understanding the meaning of a simple ten word sentence you had better keep reading the comics. That is sarcasm, do you see the difference?

 

Actually, I would consider that an insult. Not sarcasm.

But I may be misinterpreting your intent.

Gotcha'!

 

Steve Hellums, it is sobering to read your posts. You took the time to share your experiences with us, so I'd like to put a few thoughts out there.

I have found that living as a rational person is a choice. It is not a one-time decision, but a lifetime of effort to choose and embrace reality and to discover what thoughts and actions are needed to succeed as a human rather than as an animal. A commitment to rationality is a major achievement in and of itself.

The alternative is irrationality. It requires little mental effort, but is terribly difficult and costly in other ways.

I suppose that many people live their lives trying to mix the two.

Irrational people follow their whims and feelings, or are led around in a stupor by the desires of others. They do not know the source of their desires or what course is proper in life because they have abandoned the most important tool they have... a rational mind.

Rationality tells us that we cannot have something for nothing. Life on a human level requires constant effort. Everything of value to us has to be produced and maintained - not only the physical neccesities and niceties, but also spiritual things like good relationships, reputations, trust, etc.

Irrational people see reality as the enemy. Reality will not let them have something for nothing. Reality will not cover their lies, forgive their indescretions, or wink at their evil. Their need and weakness is answered with silence. They see the world as out to get them and see themselves as flawed and fallen beings. The true enemy, however, is their own desire to remain irrational. They reduce their lives to a level lower than an animal, living as parasites off of the effort of others. This condition applies whether they are an unemployable young woman or the president of a great nation.

Hope is not lost, however. All that is needed to change a life is a change of thinking. I hope that someday your daughter makes that choice.

My spelcheck doesn't work.

 

---------------

Amen, brother. Well said and spoken like someone who's lived it. I have arrived at the same conclusion through a long and winding road.

I'd also say that rational living is neither automatically good nor evil. Plenty of rational human beings have taken the road of destruction for the sake of the self or the group. Imho, rational, when combined with a liberal amount of humility and compassion generally lead to a life that may be characterized as "good."

 

I understand your point and I too have seen people end up in the soup when they intended something else. See if this makes sense to you:

Good and evil apply only to life. It comes down to life or death, existence or non existence. This is the fundamental alternative open to a living being. Those things and actions that promote life are good, and those that don't are bad. Humans do not automatically know the good from the bad, however, and cannot survive on the intellectual level of plants or animals. We have to learn good and evil as we go along. Our own individual lives are our standard of value, with our happiness as our purpose. It is an entirely selfish process.

It is through rationality that individual men have discovered every good thing we know. A reliance on superstition, revelation, instinct, and whim has been the cause of most of our problems.

Thanks to our Founding Fathers and some brilliant minds before them we have discovered and put into law our right to our own lives, our freedom, and our pursuit of the goal of happiness. This was a complete change from other governments that effectively owned and controlled the the geography, goods, and the people.

What is not well recognized, however, is the fact that no man is dutybound to be a sacrifice for others, and no one has the right to sacrifice another person. "Hands off" is the basic idea, with no man assuming the right to initiate the use of force against another. Sadly, our government has become the greatest violator of this principle, on a scale that no thug or criminal could achieve. I mean the use of taxation and laws to obliterate our rights and confer on some the property and wealth taken from others.

As to humility and compassion. A rational man will be humble in the face of his errors, but his pride and his self worth will make him correct his error and proceed up a better path. A rational man learns to seek the things and virtues that are good for his life, and when he sees them displayed in another person, he values that person, too. But it is a love and respect that has been earned. Compassion also has to be earned. However, I can feel compassion for a stranger, unless and until he proves he is not worthy of it (maybe he turns out to be a crook or a parasite).

I suppose this is the wrong thread for these thoughts, but it was offered in the context of Mr. Hellums' situation.

 

If you were to meet her, she is usually polite and will talk to you nice. But she can go from 0 to raving ***** in 2 seconds. I didn't even touch on some of the real bad crap she has pulled like jail for bad checks, 4 unpaid speeding tickets, wreckless driving ticket, punching her mother in the face more than once. I could go on & on. I just get so mad when I start thinking about what she has done with her life when she is so smart and good looking, she could have done anything with her life. The other thing that really pi$$es me off is that she is robbing my wife & I of the years that we should be really living the good life. We are both in our late 40's and should be enjoying the life we worked so hard to get, but instead our lives are in constant turmoil worring about the grand kids and giving the daughter thousands of dollars a year to take care of them.

 

This is way over my head. I love the subject of philosophy and how it affects our lives, but I am no shrink. It sounds like your girl needs a team of specialists. I think medical problems can greatly affect behavior, to the degree that the person can't be held responsible for their actions. Drug abuse is a different story, though. Whatever the case, Good luck, and I admire you for looking after the kids.

 

She was into the drug abuse seen for a few years (22 to 24), but stopped when she found out she was pregenant the first time, so it's been over 4 year's. The wife thinks getting pregenant probably saved her life and it probably did. When she was 21 or so, she said her and her mom needed to see a counselor or something for their problems getting along. The wife jumped right on that. They went one time, they both talked to the conselor together then she wanted to talk to the daughter alone. After that the daughter said the counselor didn't help at all and did not want to go back, I'd say she told her that her mother was right about their problems is the reason she didn't want to go back. My guess is it is just in her genetic make up, my wife has a brother that don't know the truth from a lie and is a total idiot. I am not her biological dad, she came as a package deal with the wife at 2 years old, so it's not my gene's thank God. Her biological dad had a bad reputation for violent behavior, the wife had broke it off with him before she found out she herself was pregenant because he started getting rough with her.

 

I hope you don't mind me commenting, Mr. Hellums, but as a counselor, based on your story, I would guess she has one, in particular, if not two specific disorders that she should really seek some assistance for. It would help her life immensely, and trust me, yours and your wife's too. And the children's situation too. That does NOT mean she is sick or crazy, just a different way of looking at the world, and you can't possibly relate or understand that, or how she does and that can drive you crazy.

On the other hand, just because she does also does not mean you have to put up with her behavior. i would at the least recommend that you set ground rules, behavioral expectations and boundaries, have ramifications in order and if they are violated you follow-through, and most importantly stick to them and by that she will learn new behavioral skills that will be more appropriate at least to you. Even if she does nothing else on her own.

PM me if you'd like. Hang in there. Mark

 

I would like to apologize to everybody for turning this thread into Steve's and his daughter's problems.
Mark, thank you for the advice. But we have tried everything with her, she don't care what the ramifications are. She will do what she wants and lie about it. One of the first one was " live under my roof you live by my rules", that didn't help she lived out of her car or anybody that would take her in. Telling her to do something is like telling it to a wall. I gave her $ a while back to get her oil changed since I couldn't get her to bring her van out for me to do it, 4 or 5 months later she had to bring it out for me to work on. I looked at the oil filter and it was the same one I had put on it the last time I changed the oil. I asked her if she got the oil changed with the money I gave her, she paused and said she gave the money to her friend to go get it done for her - LIE! I think she is beyond help, she would tell a counselor what she thought they wanted to hear and just go on as usual.