Replied sir.

Yep Markus thats what were hoping for, we just need the key to work.

 

And apparently the C230 wont work for Beckmann, needs to be a C320 or C240 m6. Anyone have one of these in a manual trans to let Beckmann run some tests?

 

Junk Yard???

 

The C-Class uses a different type of drive authorization and the ECUs are physically different between the two cars even though they are both controlling the same engine.

 

Are you referring to the E.I.S. (Electronic Ignition System)? So because of the different key the entire ECU had to be changed... which probably has more to do with the immobilizer...

 

The problem with that route is getting the car to Beckmann. They have to do tests in there building with the car on and started.

Yeah, the thing with Beckmann's idea is capturing the data between the SAM and ECU from the clutch signal(s). The ECU itself wont be needed or matter. Just the data going to it.

The immobilizer is everything, unless you can manipulate it then you can't get a factory setup. There will always be something missing. The V8 ECU is needed for the drivers to the injectors, coils and mapping etc..

 

All I have to say about Beckmann is they never got Lantana's car to start with the key and I wasted 3 months with them on our first build because they couldn't grasp the difference between an ME28 and an ME281 from a kompressor car.

 

Yeah, Bob and I had the run around like crazy at first because he didn't understand what I was asking. I figured instead of asking them an open question like "start my car" I would ask them a more direct like, "can you capture CAN data and replicate it in a custom made module". It still took some explaining to do after but he understands now and showed me a couple examples that they have done with companies that needed the same sort of thing. So we know it would work but it wouldnt be factory, wouldnt solve the key problem, and is sort of expensive because of the labor involved.

 

Got the airbox finally, Thanks Jim!!!! It looks friggen awesome!

 

Havent updated in a couple of weeks... Nothing to report quite yet, I did some things with the ECU's wen't to go try it out and found that my battery is TOAST. Found out that my hand-me-down charger is TOAST. So tonight I have someone willing to lend me a charger so that I can at least see if the V8 ECU is alive still lol. SMD's are complicated little ba$tard$ to work on and it is very easy to destroy multiple things if not done carefully. I do not believe it will crank just yet, but if the ECU is still alive then there is a chance we can get there from here. I did not unlock it, I figured since I had all the equipment ready at one time I would just go with a part of plan A which is just swap the Immo from the V6 to the V8's ECU (saving the data in-between of course)... If it's a no-go then the rest of plan A would be the next phase, unlock Immo and try coding in DAS.

There is sort of an update, a while back I finally got ahold of the guy who paid Mercedes engineers on the side to figure this out and we ran through with them what we need to do... Well long story short they want way too much money then I have, about 3 times what I have paid for the build to date. But, they only asked for the computers so that is good news. Whatever the problem is we can figure it out at this point, it's just a matter of time. I am still 99% sure the problem is in the Immo, and correct coding in DAS.

 

Got the charger, got time to try out everything and the ECU needs to be unlocked. Kind of figured, so tonight or tomorrow I will try a virgin file for the immo and see if it decides to work with me. If so we may get somewhere.

 

I'd love to see where you get with this and if you can get the key to work for engine ignition. Getting the immobilizer to work should not be too big of an issue, it's been done before a few times. I've been gathering parts for a while to do some other engine mods and from what i have been able to gather from testing wires and from other MB cars is that our cars (and r170 chassis cars) use the switchblade key. As you know and when you turn the key to start the engine it sends a non CAN signal to the ecu. The m113 cars don't do this, they have the newer MB keys and send this signal over CAN.

What i would probably try to do is get one of the key assemblies from the newer MB cars and find a way to mod it so that signals from the existing key assembly will trigger the CAN functions on the newer assembly (a sort of piggyback setup). You could also upgrade the crossfire to the newer assembly but then your probably also looking at replacing security modules among other things.

I haven't gone far enough to actually capture CAN signals, but i would imagine replicating them with custom modules would be very difficult considering the amount of non essential data that would most likely also need to be replicated. Considering how much VIN and vehicle data gets sent to modules that don't really need it, i would imagine the key assembly also works the same way. CAN is essentially low level networking, the traffic may even be encrypted.

Anyways i'd love to see where you get with this and maybe you can think of something that i haven't.

 

Thanks for the input, hopefully I can get this figured out so we can get some 6-speed's hanging out with SRT's!

But first off the Immobilizer is everything. Key, VIN, guage cluster etc. are all stored in the IMMO. The key won't work if you don't put the V6 immo data in the v8 immo or just swap the chips. The only reason the 55 AMG swaps start off of the key is because those ECU's contain the old data. You can program, in Star DAS once it is unlocked, the transponder's for that swap. The non-amg ECU's don't incorporate the means through DAS to do this... It doesn't mean it can't be done, it just can't all be done through DAS. Which is why I swapped the Immo's. Well now it see's that I tampered with the ECU and doesn't wan't to cooperate. Once virginized I'm thinking it will have a better shot at recognizing the key since this is the chip that dealt with the transponder in the first place. Basically, when you put the transponder in, the signal is sent directly to this chip before anywhere else (I think).

According to phoenixphil (guy on the German crossfire forum who had mercedes figure this out for him) everything works as stock. Unlock doors, hop in, push clutch down and start the V8. He also has cruise control (tricky since the clutch position switch won't want to read), and his wing still works. So we know it is all possible. He may have used the donor key and came up with something that way but I doubt it. They didn't ask for my key/donor key, they only asked for the ECU's...

As far as replacing the ignition and corresponding devices.... Once again, that isn't necessary according to phoenixphil's contacts at Mercedes... now that is one way we know it will work, but believe me when I say you do NOT want to do that lol. You will need every BCM, SAM and the complete harness while customizing some of it. Every part works together. If the front right SAM want's a signal, it wants to see the signal come from where it is supposed to come from which means putting in that module. None of the modules are individually active, they all work together, and are VIN encoded, therefor you need all of them. You would be better off running a standalone and making a custom harness. Here in CA, I "shouldn't" do that. I could get away with it but it is technically illegal and still a pain to deal with since you need a custom harness... So you could swap everything over but it would be literally insane the amount of work that would need to be done. Plus there expensive!

I am almost positive that once I virginize the V6 Immo and put it back in the V8 ECU that it will only be a matter of coding in DAS. If not then there is something somewhere else I need to check. The next stop would be Flash data.

And honestly it would be amazing to know which chip the Clutch Interlock Switch is incorporated with. Is it part of the V6 immo? (I would think since it deals with the initial start sequence and anti-theft) If so that chip would be a must if only for that reason. Whatever chip it is in, it's not on the V8's (obvioulsy) and would need to be transferred.

We are getting there it will just take a little bit more time. Rudy has offered me a solution which I will keep in mind as a plan B. At this point with what I have already bought it is only time consuming.

 

I read somewhere a while back that the AMG ecu's did this for mercedes customers who wanted an AMG upgrade (although i can't verify that information). A mercedes delership would just swap the ecu and engine with its AMG counterparts and add the immobilizer data to the AMG ecu.

If i also remember, electrically there is no difference between the AMG and non AMG edu, it just programming. So once you clean up the v6 immobilizer it should work, well at least i hope it does.

Don't you just love Merceres Benz computers lol

 

The programming difference is the problem, that is right. But beyond that you can't even access what's needed in Star DAS. Like the immobilizer, for whatever reason they decided to make that along with the BAS and ESP only accessible with the DRBIII Chrysler scan tool. So with Star it's a "don't even waste your time" kind of thing. Even pure Mercedes cars you still need to get dirty (so to speak) to access data in certain areas. Like the whole AMG, non-AMG key problem. For non-AMG ECU's it is a lot more complicated than selecting a drop down option like it is for the AMG ECU's.

 

I was able to virginize the ECU yesterday. Tried coding that Jim and Markus had up and the car did not start. One possibility is my battery. For DAS testing at all it has to be on a trickle charger, without the charger it wont hold 4V, so yeah it's pretty toast. This week I will pick up a new battery and hopefully it will start. If not then at least I gave it a good chance.

Also, to go along with the beginning, I can now unlock the ECU's so if anyone needs/wants it done let me know. We can work it out a lot cheaper than probably anywhere else.

 

Unfortunately the car still wont crank. I'm working on coding and Karim over in Paris is thinking of a new plan. We cannot access Intitial startup in DAS only Teach in of Drive Authorization which he says makes the problem a lot more complicated. I wen't ahead and grabbed a deep cycle for testing since my battery was shot and ordered an optima yellow top for when the car is running. The cool thing about the Optima spiral cell batteries is that you can run them dead and just re-charge them. They can handle just fine with that.

More later hopefully.

 

Do you have an optima compatible charger? They charge differently than lead acid batteries.

 

Yeah, my step-dad will let me borrow his as needed. He uses the sealed, spiral cell gel blue tops as a battery bank for a wind-generator. But thanks though!

 

Been a while since an update so I figured I would check in. To all the people that have been messaging me so much about the swap, understand that this is a slow process. We aren't talking about a honda motor swap, I really wish it was that easy. The updates on this thread will be the important ones. I am still thinking of doing a brief How-To when I'm done so that people know what they will need and the basics behind the swap. Like I said before though, the swap is easy. Anyone with 20-40 hours, a friend and the parts can do it themselves except for the exhaust.

Now down to business. A couple ideas have been floated around a few countries and as it stands we are still working at a solution. There is another promising option that just came to light this morning so I will give it a shot as soon as I can. Unfortunately I lifted the pads on the board under the immo and have to repair them now. No biggie, just a minor inconvenience. Just goes to show that the "easy" way may not be the best way lol, aka avoid solder suckers and stick with wick.

We will get there though, we have all learned a lot recently. The problem is in the computers, It isn't a matter of unlocking, variant coding, and teach in of drive authorization. It isn't retaining the V6 immo data in the V8 ECU. Whatever it is will surface and I will fix it, it just a matter of time.