ECU Performance
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,094
Likes: 8
From: Charleston, SC
Re: ECU Performance
Originally Posted by MMZ_TimeLord
Woody,
Have you considered http://www.enginuity.org? Totally open source software that was originally developed for the Subaru WRXs and Mitsubishi EVOs and such. Here's the thing, if you can get the '.hex' file and put it back, you can probably create a good map with this software, it has quite a bit of flexibility in that you can build a profile for your particular ECU.
I'd be happy to help you tear mapping the image. I just had no clue as to how to extract it.
If I can learn how to extract it without having to desolder the chip (as you had to) then I'd be happy to help map the SRT6 image too.
Let me know if I can be of any help...
Have you considered http://www.enginuity.org? Totally open source software that was originally developed for the Subaru WRXs and Mitsubishi EVOs and such. Here's the thing, if you can get the '.hex' file and put it back, you can probably create a good map with this software, it has quite a bit of flexibility in that you can build a profile for your particular ECU.
I'd be happy to help you tear mapping the image. I just had no clue as to how to extract it.
If I can learn how to extract it without having to desolder the chip (as you had to) then I'd be happy to help map the SRT6 image too.
Let me know if I can be of any help...
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From: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth, Sol, Milkyway
Re: ECU Performance
Ouch... a bit pricey, but has a wide range of applications... I had seen this before, but I didn't look a lot further as I was hoping for a more open source solution. *Sigh*
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,094
Likes: 8
From: Charleston, SC
Re: ECU Performance
Originally Posted by MMZ_TimeLord
Ouch... a bit pricey, but has a wide range of applications... I had seen this before, but I didn't look a lot further as I was hoping for a more open source solution. *Sigh*
That's exactly why I'm looking at a piggyback system that will provide me fully adjustable tuning capabilities for less than $1,300... And as I add modifications, cams, etc. I can readjust and re-tune...
Who needs to reflash the ECU when all you need to do is adjust the FAM and timing downstream of the PCM and ECU... That's all that the aftermarket performance chips achieve, but they are selling you only 1 off-the-shelf map that has nothing to do with your specific car or performance needs...
And who wants to risk reprogramming the computer that operates their car without some serious education about the process...
The great thing about a piggyback system is that you can disconnect it and your car computer is still OEM...
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From: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth, Sol, Milkyway
Re: ECU Performance
On TunerTools they have this listed when you ask for Mercedes category items... Also comes up in the Chrysler category.
AEM Fuel / Ignition Controller (F/IC)
Looks like a very compatible and easily tunable fuel/ignition piggyback system for under $500.
AEM Fuel / Ignition Controller (F/IC)
Looks like a very compatible and easily tunable fuel/ignition piggyback system for under $500.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,094
Likes: 8
From: Charleston, SC
Re: ECU Performance
Originally Posted by MMZ_TimeLord
On TunerTools they have this listed when you ask for Mercedes category items... Also comes up in the Chrysler category.
AEM Fuel / Ignition Controller (F/IC)
Looks like a very compatible and easily tunable fuel/ignition piggyback system for under $500.
AEM Fuel / Ignition Controller (F/IC)
Looks like a very compatible and easily tunable fuel/ignition piggyback system for under $500.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,945
Likes: 23
From: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth, Sol, Milkyway
Re: ECU Performance
HDDP,
Thanks for the response... now I know I'm on the right track. I have a book on PCM/ECU operation and tuning. It has a whole section on piggy back systems and 'defeater' systems. AEM was one of the 'big' ones they discuss and praise.
Hmm... getting more hours now... maybe I can trick you into a track day up here before the season is over.
Thanks for the response... now I know I'm on the right track. I have a book on PCM/ECU operation and tuning. It has a whole section on piggy back systems and 'defeater' systems. AEM was one of the 'big' ones they discuss and praise.
Hmm... getting more hours now... maybe I can trick you into a track day up here before the season is over.
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Joined: May 2004
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From: Charleston, SC
Re: ECU Performance
Originally Posted by MMZ_TimeLord
HDDP,
Thanks for the response... now I know I'm on the right track. I have a book on PCM/ECU operation and tuning. It has a whole section on piggy back systems and 'defeater' systems. AEM was one of the 'big' ones they discuss and praise.
Hmm... getting more hours now... maybe I can trick you into a track day up here before the season is over.
Thanks for the response... now I know I'm on the right track. I have a book on PCM/ECU operation and tuning. It has a whole section on piggy back systems and 'defeater' systems. AEM was one of the 'big' ones they discuss and praise.
Hmm... getting more hours now... maybe I can trick you into a track day up here before the season is over.
Back to the other stuff... I got this post at the TunerTools Forum...
Or it may have to do with the fact that I was wiring a 2003 CBR 600 F4i instead. 
The GReddy emanage system does provide a bit of assistance, since your stock ECU is still in place. Assuming all the dip switch settings are correct for the vehicle, the universal units and harnesses will build a base tune utilizing the tune currently in your ECU. Using a Wideband o2 setup will provide additional assistance, as the piggyback will build a base (slightly fuel rich) tune from which the vehicle may be further tuned.
AEM has released their F/IC (Fuel and Ignition Controller) and is currently developing "plug and play" harnesses for the product, however they are initially focusing on the Honda K and B series engines, and a few select Nissan engines. I wouldn't count on a harness for the Crossfire being available soon. Additionally, the F/IC does not support a target A/F ration tune or any tuning assistance. As with the eManage, the vehicle will start using the base tune within the ECU, but the AEM unit, you will need to perform all the tuning.
Concerning the DIY mechanic: these units walk a fine line. While they are targeting the tuning market, it is more involved than a basic bolt on (which of course you are already aware!) With a basic understanding of vehicle dynamics AND wiring system, it is manageable. With your knowledge you should be more than capable of performing the install. The install will require you to splice your Map/Maf, injector, ignition and other signals with the piggyback harness.
With a lot of patience and logging the systems can provide a significant improvement over stock conditions, especially in hard driving situations (i.e. high RPMs and Load.) The vehicle will begin to remove a significant amount of fuel and retard the timing in such situations with an KR (knock) signals. This is very common on stock vehicle. I know the GTO in particular is very sensitive to and knock and will during logging I have seen the ECU significantly retard the timing during such situations. By tuning the vehicle as close to the edge as possible, but avoiding knock you will see a marked improvement in the consistency and performance of the vehicle.
With a new daily driver and FSAE in a lull, the Talon project car should have an eManage system installed soon, I will be sure to post progress, results, etc of the project as it progresses.
The GReddy emanage system does provide a bit of assistance, since your stock ECU is still in place. Assuming all the dip switch settings are correct for the vehicle, the universal units and harnesses will build a base tune utilizing the tune currently in your ECU. Using a Wideband o2 setup will provide additional assistance, as the piggyback will build a base (slightly fuel rich) tune from which the vehicle may be further tuned.
AEM has released their F/IC (Fuel and Ignition Controller) and is currently developing "plug and play" harnesses for the product, however they are initially focusing on the Honda K and B series engines, and a few select Nissan engines. I wouldn't count on a harness for the Crossfire being available soon. Additionally, the F/IC does not support a target A/F ration tune or any tuning assistance. As with the eManage, the vehicle will start using the base tune within the ECU, but the AEM unit, you will need to perform all the tuning.
Concerning the DIY mechanic: these units walk a fine line. While they are targeting the tuning market, it is more involved than a basic bolt on (which of course you are already aware!) With a basic understanding of vehicle dynamics AND wiring system, it is manageable. With your knowledge you should be more than capable of performing the install. The install will require you to splice your Map/Maf, injector, ignition and other signals with the piggyback harness.
With a lot of patience and logging the systems can provide a significant improvement over stock conditions, especially in hard driving situations (i.e. high RPMs and Load.) The vehicle will begin to remove a significant amount of fuel and retard the timing in such situations with an KR (knock) signals. This is very common on stock vehicle. I know the GTO in particular is very sensitive to and knock and will during logging I have seen the ECU significantly retard the timing during such situations. By tuning the vehicle as close to the edge as possible, but avoiding knock you will see a marked improvement in the consistency and performance of the vehicle.
With a new daily driver and FSAE in a lull, the Talon project car should have an eManage system installed soon, I will be sure to post progress, results, etc of the project as it progresses.
Last edited by HDDP; Jul 10, 2007 at 02:36 AM.
Joined: Jul 2007
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Re: ECU Performance
Hey all,
New to the forum and just wanted to throw my 2 cents in ... I worked at a car shop some years ago and have nothing but good things to say about powerchip, while pricey they do good work and I have never seen one of their reflashes come back. Again just my 2 cents, but hope it helps.
New to the forum and just wanted to throw my 2 cents in ... I worked at a car shop some years ago and have nothing but good things to say about powerchip, while pricey they do good work and I have never seen one of their reflashes come back. Again just my 2 cents, but hope it helps.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,094
Likes: 8
From: Charleston, SC
Re: ECU Performance
Originally Posted by draganFP
Hey all,
New to the forum and just wanted to throw my 2 cents in ... I worked at a car shop some years ago and have nothing but good things to say about powerchip, while pricey they do good work and I have never seen one of their reflashes come back. Again just my 2 cents, but hope it helps.
New to the forum and just wanted to throw my 2 cents in ... I worked at a car shop some years ago and have nothing but good things to say about powerchip, while pricey they do good work and I have never seen one of their reflashes come back. Again just my 2 cents, but hope it helps.
That being said, the PowerChip reflash is not unlike the Upsolute, nor the Renntech, or the others, etc. who have access to the Bosch Motronic 2.8 software... I haven't heard of any problems aside from CEL's... Heck, I had the PowerChip Gold 93 programmed into my Crossfire in 2004... Since then, I have had other custom maps installed...
There are many threads on this forum that discuss the off-the-shelf ECU tune process and I hope you will find them informative...
As far as PowerChip being pricey, I had mine done for $350.00 in Los Angeles... And as they were reflashing the ECU, I had an opportunity to observe (over the shoulder) and all the were doing was installing maps for the MB W112 with advanced timing / fueling that is standard with the Bosch / MB support software...
Again, welcome to the forum... I hope you use the search button.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,881
Likes: 3
Re: ECU Performance
Originally Posted by MMZ_TimeLord
Ouch... a bit pricey, but has a wide range of applications... I had seen this before, but I didn't look a lot further as I was hoping for a more open source solution. *Sigh*
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,945
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From: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth, Sol, Milkyway
Re: ECU Performance
Maxwell,
The AEM Fuel / Ignition Controller (F/IC) is only about $500. With the addition of the LC-1 Duo Kit (2 LC-1's + DL-32) from Innovate Motorsports for initial data acquisition and further tuning you are looking at close to $1,300.
Not sure how much more would be needed... head on over to the Tuner Tools Forums and follow the thread there... ask questions... get answers...
The AEM Fuel / Ignition Controller (F/IC) is only about $500. With the addition of the LC-1 Duo Kit (2 LC-1's + DL-32) from Innovate Motorsports for initial data acquisition and further tuning you are looking at close to $1,300.
Not sure how much more would be needed... head on over to the Tuner Tools Forums and follow the thread there... ask questions... get answers...
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,881
Likes: 3
Re: ECU Performance
Well the problem with a piggy back is that when you buy one system, you end up finding another one that does the same thing and has aux ports. So you know your gonna have to buy multiple piggyback ECUs, it's a never ending curse, where as if you find the biggest baddest stand alone or piggyback for $2,000 - $4,000 you'll be ahead of the rest of the game.
But we are still learning, so you have to start somewhere.
I wonder if there is a piggyback for the Brake/TC/ABS system, now that would be really cool. I wonder if one could actuate the electronic cutting brakes for certain lateral G mapping, make it more/less sensitive at different levels of force, now I want that, can Tuner tools provide this option? Pretty soon we'll be handling like an F1 car, lol.
But we are still learning, so you have to start somewhere.
I wonder if there is a piggyback for the Brake/TC/ABS system, now that would be really cool. I wonder if one could actuate the electronic cutting brakes for certain lateral G mapping, make it more/less sensitive at different levels of force, now I want that, can Tuner tools provide this option?
Pretty soon we'll be handling like an F1 car, lol.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,094
Likes: 8
From: Charleston, SC
Re: ECU Performance
Originally Posted by MMZ_TimeLord
Maxwell,
The AEM Fuel / Ignition Controller (F/IC) is only about $500. With the addition of the LC-1 Duo Kit (2 LC-1's + DL-32) from Innovate Motorsports for initial data acquisition and further tuning you are looking at close to $1,300.
Not sure how much more would be needed... head on over to the Tuner Tools Forums and follow the thread there... ask questions... get answers...
The AEM Fuel / Ignition Controller (F/IC) is only about $500. With the addition of the LC-1 Duo Kit (2 LC-1's + DL-32) from Innovate Motorsports for initial data acquisition and further tuning you are looking at close to $1,300.
Not sure how much more would be needed... head on over to the Tuner Tools Forums and follow the thread there... ask questions... get answers...
First things first... I gotta get the equipment in...
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,094
Likes: 8
From: Charleston, SC
Re: ECU Performance
Originally Posted by Maxwell
Well the problem with a piggy back is that when you buy one system, you end up finding another one that does the same thing and has aux ports. So you know your gonna have to buy multiple piggyback ECUs, it's a never ending curse, where as if you find the biggest baddest stand alone or piggyback for $2,000 - $4,000 you'll be ahead of the rest of the game.
But we are still learning, so you have to start somewhere.
I wonder if there is a piggyback for the Brake/TC/ABS system, now that would be really cool. I wonder if one could actuate the electronic cutting brakes for certain lateral G mapping, make it more/less sensitive at different levels of force, now I want that, can Tuner tools provide this option? Pretty soon we'll be handling like an F1 car, lol.
But we are still learning, so you have to start somewhere.
I wonder if there is a piggyback for the Brake/TC/ABS system, now that would be really cool. I wonder if one could actuate the electronic cutting brakes for certain lateral G mapping, make it more/less sensitive at different levels of force, now I want that, can Tuner tools provide this option?
Pretty soon we'll be handling like an F1 car, lol. I'm just happy getting the AFR down from 14.7:1 to a bit more HP friendly 13.0:1
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,945
Likes: 23
From: San Mateo, CA, USA, Earth, Sol, Milkyway
Re: ECU Performance
Well the problem with a piggy back is that when you buy one system, you end up finding another one that does the same thing and has aux ports. So you know your gonna have to buy multiple piggyback ECUs, it's a never ending curse, where as if you find the biggest baddest stand alone or piggyback for $2,000 - $4,000 you'll be ahead of the rest of the game.
But we are still learning, so you have to start somewhere.
I wonder if there is a piggyback for the Brake/TC/ABS system, now that would be really cool. I wonder if one could actuate the electronic cutting brakes for certain lateral G mapping, make it more/less sensitive at different levels of force, now I want that, can Tuner tools provide this option? Pretty soon we'll be handling like an F1 car, lol.
But we are still learning, so you have to start somewhere.
I wonder if there is a piggyback for the Brake/TC/ABS system, now that would be really cool. I wonder if one could actuate the electronic cutting brakes for certain lateral G mapping, make it more/less sensitive at different levels of force, now I want that, can Tuner tools provide this option?
Pretty soon we'll be handling like an F1 car, lol.
I do agree it would be nice to be able to access and 'tweak' all the settings and tables in the ECU/PCM and update them ourselves. The problem is that nobody has mapped this stuff out yet. For the time being, I'd be happy with a bit more power...
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,094
Likes: 8
From: Charleston, SC
Re: ECU Performance
Originally Posted by MMZ_TimeLord
Until I get the skill level that I'm learning how to 'trail brake' I'll let the ESP keep me safe. This is my daily driver after all.
I do agree it would be nice to be able to access and 'tweak' all the settings and tables in the ECU/PCM and update them ourselves. The problem is that nobody has mapped this stuff out yet. For the time being, I'd be happy with a bit more power...
I do agree it would be nice to be able to access and 'tweak' all the settings and tables in the ECU/PCM and update them ourselves. The problem is that nobody has mapped this stuff out yet. For the time being, I'd be happy with a bit more power...
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Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Leicester UK
Re: ECU Performance
Originally Posted by Maxwell
I wonder if there is a piggyback for the Brake/TC/ABS system, now that would be really cool. I wonder if one could actuate the electronic cutting brakes for certain lateral G mapping, make it more/less sensitive at different levels of force, now I want that, can Tuner tools provide this option? Pretty soon we'll be handling like an F1 car, lol.
Pretty soon we'll be handling like an F1 car, lol.I'll see if I can plot the response curve of the G sensor when I get chance like I did for the throttle pedal (attached).
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Re: ECU Performance
Originally Posted by woody
It should be quite possible to hack the lateral G sensor module (under the dash) to feed it a modified signal. The Crossfire uses a mass/spring type sensor with an analogue output, (rather than a solid-state accelerometer) The system would be just the same a 'sprint booster'; an A-D converter to digitize the output of the sensor, into a small micro (PIC/AVR etc.) to generate the desired output via a D-A converter based on a look up table or formula. I built something similar to create a variable response throttle pedal module. In fact you can do it with a single chip and some support circuitry. As ever its a bit more complicated that since the system also takes a signal from a steering angle sensor.
I'll see if I can plot the response curve of the G sensor when I get chance like I did for the throttle pedal (attached).
I'll see if I can plot the response curve of the G sensor when I get chance like I did for the throttle pedal (attached).
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,002
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From: Leicester UK
Re: ECU Performance
Originally Posted by Maxwell
Very cool stuff indeed, If you can build a separate ecu to manage the electronic brakes that would be, Out of this world as far as handling upgrades! To be able to choose different maps for which brakes can activates with-in certain steering angles and g-loads, I think the guys at NASA are gonna start making new rules for HDDP.
As far as I can tell the lateral G and Yaw sensors are combined in the one unit despite being shown separately on the schematic. Also there does not actually seem to be a lateral acceleration signal (no pin populated in the connector). The wire colours don't seem entirely correct either, but then I found that to be the case with other signals into the CAB unit. Or I could have completely screwed up and have the wrong module. I'll try and get some signals out of it but in the meantime here are some pics:
