Good news and bad news... bad news, it looks like the headers are on indefinite hold. Good news, the owner (Marcin) took ownership of the SNAFU and plans to refund the deposits today. Allegedly the delay was due to the lack of a donor car, but I never recall seeing them come on here and ask for someone to stand in... as suspected, we went to back-burner when the big $$$ projects rolled in. Sucks, but it is what it is.

Before anyone gets bent out of shape about the group-buy imploding, please remember -- the headers were no closer to reality than they were when the last photo was posted of the CNC flanges. Otherwise, why would they voluntarily refund all deposits? You would have been waiting, and waiting, and waiting...

From MB-World...

It was a fun ride.

 

I still want a set. I obviously felt that Marcin needed to made a decision immediately one way or the other or this "group buy" would affect Speedriven's ability to market on any forum. I wish the decision would have been to make the headers asap but understand business decisions. I lost patience when Aleks said this project was a former employees project that had left and indicated Speedriven was not responsible. It was a Speedriven project to develop Speedriven headers. Deposits were sent to Speedriven and not a specific employee. Next was the recent promise of an update that never happened. Next that the deposit was only to measure interest. That one was the final straw. When money changes hands it's a contract. It was never personal but you don't penalize paying customers because what they're buying is on the less expensive end of the products marketed. I also find it unusual that the announcement pertaining to the return of deposits was made on MBworld and still hasn't been posted here by Speedriven. This decision was made to defend future sales to MBworld members and to keep us from voicing questions and sharing our group buy experience over there. When I get my deposit returned that is exactly my intention. The world according to Les.

Les

 

All good points, Les. Marcin's commentary was clearly a "CYA" post. But until I get the refund, I will not let it die. Once I do, I'll hush.

I wanted headers as much as anyone, but I don't do business with liars and I'll be damned if I'm going to give $1,000+ in hard-earned cash to a man that called the header customers "ignorant and rude" because we wanted feedback after nine months with nothing concrete.

When a company misbehaves in such a fashion, they don't get the reward of my business. And I think it's our duty, as fellow enthusiasts, to warn future customers about the potential handling they will receive.

 

I know of a builder near Indy. I really don't have an interest myself. But, I would be glad to drive by there and get their take on a build if, IF, there were at least 10 buyers interested. This may or may not peak their interest to lower their price. I was off-hand quoted $1500.00 for a set. I wanted longer tubes. But, like I have stated many times, this would be a "first" build for them. First time mods don't happen quickly. Not a first build for headers as they do headers for Indy Car, Monster trucks, Mud racers, stock cars, you name it. But, a first for our car. It is a very tight build, and we both agreed the engine would have to be raised a bit to install them...so, if at least 10 are serious, I would stop by this Saturday while out on another mission...lol.... Let me know. I won't waste my time if 10 aren't serious. I honestly think they would be more than quoted for just one car...but, knowing they could do a run might lower their price. They do excellent work. No one is more particular than me..

 

according to the shop we went back burner so the high dollar whipple could move forward. pardon my ignorance but with the headers costing 1000$ each and 10 deposits with 8 more waiting thats 18,000$. thats the approximate cost of 3 complete whipple setups. ( they want a 6k$ pricepoint) that money was a lock and not a dime is put down for the whipples. that money is all in house.
ill bet my 100$ deposit that they built a set and the cost along with no gains in power is the real reason this went nowere. refunding everyones deposit lets them off the hook of actually having to build them at a loss
just my .02 and i received my 100$ deposit minus paypal fees so they still owe me 2.20$

 

I don't mind asking the shop I know....but, very good point...

 

I wasn't in on the original group buy, and can't afford to get a set for some time anyway, but I have to say I am very very displeased with how the company Speedriven handled itself and this project as a whole. Based just on what I have seen here and the links posted up, even if I was filthy stinking rich, I would NEVER purchase anything from these assclowns. Talk about a poor poor business model if this is how they handle a group of customers thrusting cash their direction! It makes no sense. Often times the group of people who do the most modding on their rigs are ones who drive the rarer ones. Nobody mods a cavalier because everyone has one, and even if they do its off the shelf autozone stuff fresh off the boat from China, without a care in the world about its quality and how long it will last. People who purchase and mod rigs like ours look for specialized stuff from quality manufacturers. You make one good product and make a name for yourself and anything you may want to try out and branch out with will be readily accepted and sought after by the whole group. Burn that group the first time out, like this, and the effect spreads far greater than the one tiny community.
Maybe they aren't aware there is this thing called the 'internet' that allows people to communicate with large groups INSTANTLY and reputations can be made or broken in mere moments. In today's market reputation is EVERYTHING!

/end rant

 

That is exactly why IF, and a BIG If, I were able to have them made, you would deal with me. I would "middle man" this build. If you don't manage a build like this, it will get out of hand quickly. So, you have "a shop" build a quality header fitted to my car. Once tested, and known fitment is accomplished, you manufacture for sale. And, only then do you take $$$$$$. Most can't or won't front the money for a build. This company is top knotch, but so may be the price. We'll just have to see. If there is interest. Let me know soon, I am already losing interest...lol...

 

This sounds like a very good reason this went no-where. Could it be true the headers are like the exhaust when it comes to HP inprovements? Hmmmmm...

 

You know guys, the only problem I see here with any "group buy" is everyone wants a "guarantee" of horspower. If this was a chevy 350 I could see it, but we've pretty much got uncharted waters here. So how is anybody going to line up one that makes everyone happy with things? Seems the most that could be hoped for is a reputable race performance shop giving it their best shot and what you get is what you get, whether its 5 hp or 20 hp unless someone's willing to drop 5 grand for them to keep prototype designing till they get something.
My dog is sniffing in this hunt because life is getting ready to change for me and my family. I sh*t you not, 4 horizontals wells go into production Sunday and at that point it's wait about another 30-45 days for division order papers and a paycheck. My wife knows my passion for this car (and is very tolerant..lol) and does not have a problem with me scrapping some off the edges over it. I'm like most of you.. I'd love to have 15-20 hp out of a set but someone tell me how we are going to get there...

 

The only "uncharted waters" are in the fitment... An engine is an engine, at the end of the day. Whether it's a Kia or a Koenigsegg, an engine needs air, fuel, and spark. Backpressure should be free enough to allow breathing, but should also have enough to promote healthy combustion. We never asked for a guarantee of horsepower. We asked for a leak-free, nicely fitted set of headers. Speedriven volunteered the optimistic numbers, but frankly I would have been happy with 10 RWHP, as long as they fit and caused no adverse issues (melted plug wires, firewall interference, etc).

There's where we disagree. THEY set the GB deposit amount... which means that their bean-counters saw it fit to start the build with a collective $1,000 investment, and a total revenue of $10,000+. Mark-up is generally set to 60% in most dealerships, tuners are no different. Nobody builds this stuff at "cost"... you can't stay in business that way. A reputable race performance shop came to us, and if anyone has the knowledge and capability, it was Speedriven. We weren't expecting a perfect header from a Starbucks barista... we gave deposits to the "best of the best"... so we thought. Once they set the price point, and we commit, the ownership is theirs at that point. As Steve mentioned, there were 10 buyers in the initial GB and eight additional folks wanting the final product. That's over $18,000 for anyone counting. For $18,000, I would have figured out a way to make horsepower.

That's a blessing that you're so fortunate... But I am pretty sure I've seen you referencing this header build in the BEGi thread, and the references have never been glowing ones. If I didn't know any better, it's almost as if you were amused that this has turned into a nightmare.

How do we get there now? No clue. Hazard to say we won't, this forum is so group-buy-shy that I would honestly be floored to see a new project take off. There have been innovative things I have conjured up (aesthetic only), but I simply don't have the energy to beg for the financial support through a GB. Those same mods, if implemented, will only be done as a one-off.

 

Possible, but unlikely.

I have this little nugget saved on my computer (see attached)... these are the VRP headers (basically the template Speedriven used) and they made serious ponies on the 32 motor. The Eurocharged headers made for the C32 were good power producers as well... but the plumbing won't fit the Crossfire/SLK firewall.

 

Figured I'd advise them that "today" never happened.

 

So it sounds like we can agree - with the highly limited space a guaranteed hp gain would be very hard to stick to since you don't really have options for tube lengths and routing. Didn't I read of headers that went kaput because of no hp gain?



Feel free to correct me, and I realize you guys have/had a lot of faith in Speedriven, but from following this forum was it so much in them or Ruddy?

No, what I found "amusing" was the "Great Speedriven Gods" (my impression since they can command double what a product is worth given a different vehicle) were not even taking the time to update and respond. It may take a couple days, but BEGi will get back to you. And my reference was to the impatients of the turbo project, when a header project has taken even longer.

I know the feeling there..probably will mount my led lighted "one-off" rear diffusers this weekend, and whether there is an interest or not - they will be the only ones made.

I'll get some locations and numbers from my co-worker and find out if he's full of himself or legit and see where things lead. Worst case I mimic Speedriven without any deposts. And actually I'm leaning towards incentive for a shop to produce a quality product "for me" with a high potential.. almost guaranteed orders for more. Guaging the interest I think I could safely say 15 sets to follow if they can come through?

 

This is sad.. I just don't know what to say.... Squirrel Crusher

 

I really dont feel like taking a screen shot of paypal and blocking peoples personal info to prove to you that it did happen today. But if you insist I will

Marcin

 

Basically the headers that were shipped to us to look at actually didn't fit an engine. We had Rudy's motor on a stand and when bolted up to the head would hit the bellhousing. So rest assured they were not used for anything other than a conversational piece. You can ask and veryfie that with Mr. Rudy if you do not belive me. But there is probably a good reason there headers have been around for a couple years and never made it on a car.

Marcin

 

Just checked, and you're right -- the refund was suddenly there since I posted.

Thank you for following through, Marcin.

 

Yes to the first statement... And there are mixed reviews on the VRP headers. The dyno I posted shows obvious gains, but it was not documented if that was ONLY headers, or headers + tune.

Make no mistake, we had confidence in Speedriven because of Rudy. But you must remember that Rudy was an employee -- Marcin called the shots. Rudy could only do what he was authorized to do; if Speedriven needed him on other projects, other projects he did. Note which username started this thread... it wasn't rcompart -- it was Speedriven. This was a business venture for them, not Rudy.

Same page now... gotcha.

Can't blame you at all brother.

I'd be apprehensive to make any commitment on behalf of the forum... what say ye, forum members?

 

Refunds got processed when I got home today, which sometimes isn't as early as i'd like. Two people have not recieved theirs yet. They paid with credit card and I can not process a refund from more than 60 days so they will be contacted and asked for paypal info or mailing address for check to be mailed out.

Marcin