CrossfireForum.org!!!!!

May the force be with you!! You have three times more to talk about....

 

Very well-spoken. And a wonderful analogy with the hemorrhoid, hahaha. The two/three agitators posed no real threat to me, weren't going to change my mind or my life, and were not serious enough to warrant any personal grief. They were, simply put, a pain in the @ss.

The principles I stand on surpass any forum, and no amount of censorship will silence my stance on the things that matter. As Franc stated, will we now have a zero-tolerance rule for all things political? Even in a joke thread? 1984 was a novel, not a hand-book.

And James, we get the fact that it's a Crossfire board and the political musings grated you. But, honestly... how long will the interest of all be arrested by caliper paint color, bulb wattage ratings, and the latest CAI? I promise you, I will ignore 90% of those threads just like 90% of people on here SHOULD HAVE ignored the political threads that they slandered, but never participated in (???). Ballet isn't my thing either, but I'm not trying to outlaw it.

And yes, other car websites have political sections. MB-World has a HUGE member base, and they're all big boys and girls about it. It's not about joining a political forum, it's about discussing politics occasionally with friends that you met THROUGH the common interest -- the Crossfire. If we're going to be a strictly informative site, let's ban OT forums altogether... after all, it muddies the water and detracts from the purity of the site's purpose.

All of the info for our cars is old hat. Aside from our friendly forum vendors, the M112 is a dead platform embraced by no one. All suspension upgrades we have are from the R170. Cosmetic mods are "to each his own" and there is no real uncharted territory. The old fogies on here will yell at any newbie for not searching for related threads, relevant to their questions, first. So, if the newbies play nicely and simply do the research instead of create new threads, we have a stagnant forum. Otherwise, all we really have to look forward to is "Will these wheels work?" and "Is the eBay tune really worth the $65?"

Oh well.

Anyone done anything new and exciting to their cars? Wait.... nevermind.

It was a good run for a few years, gentlemen. Sucks it was spoiled by mud-slinging at the end. Boys will be boys.

Blessings,

--John

 

Bingo John. as always you hit it dead center.

Although I am miffed that you stole my subject RE the Search engine referrals by some when a newbie simply asks a simple question.
"Hey I'm new and have a question?" "Go use the search button stupid!" Always a friendly welcome.

As for me, I come here for the friends and to see what's being posted. Usualy,I find nothing new except in General and Politics. Always found something there of interest.
So with the Xfire kinda like a book, dogearred from over reading, what is the point is coming here more than once or twice a week. Sure gonna cut down the viewing counts for adverstising. Cool business move.

Pehaps, assuming Barry gets re-elected, the Forum will get a bailout like Solyndra or GM.

Sorry, couldn't help it.

 

Now you and Kane will have to PM-bomb the liboffenders instead lol

 

I never said destroy it... But I will miss all the ranting and views on every topic in that section. I was not a big poster in there but I did do alot of reading.

 

Although I have never met Franc Rausher, I have come to respect and know the man for what he is and what he stands for. It is thru his musings on this forum that I have come to identify him as a person, just like so many others. All with the commonality of the Crossfire I know of John (JHM2K) and his unbending faith. I appreciate the grounded common sense shared by Mark (mdaniels4). And the foresight Chuck (czalack) puts into historical reference every day. All of these people, known only as a screen name, I have come to know and understand. TiredRetired; maxchion; oledoc2u; pizzaguy and all the others; A daily dose of polictics and life seen thru the perspective of so many other men ... men I could only hope to one day meet and call a friend.

All on a website designed around an attractive, funky little car ... a website graciously allowing a discussion involving the politics of the day.

And just as we have come to know and respect characters on the right, we share the same respect for those on the left. We come to understand the ideology, conviction and humility of guy known only by a screen name radmanly. We understand him as a person; maybe even as a friend we may someday meet. Because radmanly has the knowledge and ability to treat all others with the same measure and respect, regardless of our differences. A wise and honorable man indeed, sharp and keen with the keyboard. In jest I call him a commie. But there should be so many more like him.

But what we all risk losing today---- more than anything including friendships---- is the trove of research, historical knowledge and wisdom set to type by so many diversely wise and respected people. Years of ideological perspective, store of learning and wisdom-----once set thoughtfully and intelligently to print---- gone. Gone forever.

And that would be a shame.

 

An honest political forum has no moderators or censors. It is a futile exercise now. The Human Race has been rendered obsolete by computerized machines. They have no politics. My job cannot be done by a robot. HVACR. Gary There is no profit in babies.

 

This, and many other comments, such as by Beaner, Spotsbimmer, Franc, Cathy, John, Night, Rad, and many many others was the reason I came here, and stayed. In my view I had found a home and neighbors that I could talk to, argue with, agree with, keep my distance from, some who liked me and some who didn't-kinda like real life. Sharing a common interest in the cars, yet life is much more complex and interesting when there is more than one topic.

In fact, I have made a very good friend on this forum, as a result of the politics section who is decidedly on the other side ofthe house from my viewpoint. How odd is that? He is a man with many interests, his own viewpoint, yet one that realizes that he is among friends who can talk from different views yet hold the respect of each other at the same time. He is a man with a large mind capability, not the small-mindedness of what we've become accustomed to today. No matter what happens, he will always be my friend now, because of all of this, and had it not been for the common interest in the car, yet the interest and the ability to seek out other interests I would not have been fortunate to have met him, and I would have been lesser for it.

The "moderators" said they didn't know about the earlier poll. I find that hard to believe, as they are moderators, and that's a hard thing to keep up with, but that's the job they signed up for. That they didn't do it then is another issue. At one time I offerred personally to take that job on because I knew that it bothered them, it wasn't their gig. I never got an answer on that. Well, I guess I did by silence, but if you're going to do it, then just do it. I felt I would have, and could have, reminded others of both persuasions to take it down a notch if necessary, without malice or bias.

As people have pointed out, this sub-forum generated ALOT of interest. Judging by the number of views versus postings, and those posting were made by only a relative few, there were many many of us who stopped by, looked at postings, judged for themselves if there was merit in the topic, and either posted or not.

Either way, they had the opportunity to do so. Nobody said they HAD to check in, or don't go there, but if it wasn't your thing, as obviously it wasn't for James and others-then don't go there. But even James dropped in at times to say it was all a bunch of crap. We get that, but if it's crap to him, then I'd like to know why he'd even bother to take a look at the topic. I think comments about LED bulbs and VW bugs are crap too, but I also know that it's important to some of my friends and neighbors, and therefore it's important to me beecause it's important to them. I do hope, that at least for some, as I know it was for me, that there was lots of learning involved to as you picked through the pepper to find the fly ****.

This section was in fact being policed by it's own, and for the last 3 years that I was here it was fine. Yet recently, one person in particular, and participants and non know exactly who that poser, I mean poster, was. His commentary was vulgar, crude, and offensive to all, and I believe he did it for exactly this purpose. I, for one, if you'll notice, never responded to his comments, and his tactic was then to INCREASE the spite. If the moderators had been doing their job, that should have been stopped immediately. To ban this section as the primary action for the crudeness of one says alot about how problems are dealt with in alot of other areas of your life.

In many posts of the past, it was clear that cases were being made to Julian, and Andrew, and gosh knows who else, to no avail. Yet all of a sudden, with perhaps even more forceful lobbying, the subsection gets yanked without comment, merely days after strict warning was given, which I and others agreed with. Yet in only one case, Spud, which I truly appreciate, and even here in this thread, Spud is the only one on that side who even commented at all, (odd at best when there were so many postings by others) so I've got to wonder who is running who?

I had suggested many times that the section have a gatekeep that you agree to the terms, there is a separate button to ignore that section if you want to, the technology is there, but there was no interest in that at all apparently, but there IS interest in yanking it down as easier than the daunting task of dealing with bullies, and difficult people. Too bad. But if that was your goal, then you can consider this mission accomplished.

There were folks here that I considered friends but found that I was wrong. Not because they are bad people, I'm sure that they are fine people. But I also found that they are not to be trusted to stand strong and firm, openly and honestly, and in that I have lost confidence in them to be called friends. That's too bad, it really is.

Since this thread is to be closed tonight, I wish all of you the best in the future. As a whole, it was a really great community. Happy motoring, all.

 

Thanks for the kind words.

I do not mourn the end of the politics section. While I found it entertaining, it was frequently nasty and not conducive to the fellowship this forum represents. Good riddance.

See you in the other sections.

 

Agreed 100%.

 

Many good points. When a man is tested, then you know his fortitude. You either stand up for what's right, or... you don't.

To the friends I've made via political banter, you are lifetime friends and closing the playground is futile in dissolving the comradery. True friendship extends beyond any website, let alone a sub-forum on a site less than .05% of the world is aware of.

To the ones that refused to extend an olive branch and insisted on mocking my faith and my beliefs, best of luck to you all and I hope you find peace within yourselves before you depart this world. I harbor no resentment.

Holding a grudge means that you allow someone to live rent-free in your head. And my life is simply too bright and too promising to allow that. I haven't forgotten your words, but I won't hold them against you.

 

I guess I missed the vote also, it is a car forum afterall and I for one will not miss the distraction of the political section. Everyone has a hole and an opinion and they are interchangable in my book. Woody

On with the cars

 

After all the vitriol spilled in the political thread over the years, I guess I am not surprised to see the hypocritical remarks expressed after its demise. This thread was typical of the divisive politics in the US at the time when a cohesive effort is required by all citizens of the US to turn the tide.

Too many are influenced by media outlets only concerned with making money via advertising on their organizations. Blind acceptance of these viewpoints were then expressed in countless cut and pastes by members here. Some people only came to this site to vent their intolerant views and we are better without them.

I voted to get rid of it last time opinions were asked for. Good riddance.

 

I did not mean to put words in your mouth, Beaner.

I saw a shout of yours that SOUNDED like what I was thinking- and assumed you were thinking what I was thinking.


I think they call that "personification". (Giving it a sophisticated title makes me sound intellectual, don't you think? )

 

]

I'm sorry to hear that.

I don't think you and I agree on very much politically, but I believe it was you and one other "lefty" who exchanged many PMs with me when I was going thru some terrible personal stuff a while back. I've deleted those PM's due to my box being too full, but I've never forgotten what was said and how it helped me in a time of personal anguish.

I look at politics like I do work relationships - disagreements in those areas do not stop me from being friends otherwise. I once had a terrible argument with a co-worker, after work, his car would not start and I actually managed to get it running for him (back when shade-tree types could actually fix something). He was bewildered that I would do that. I still kept telling him how wrong he was between 7 and 3:30...

That was in 1979, we still keep in touch to this day (thanks to facebook).


The thing with politics is that we NEED those we disagree with, otherwise, it's no real discussion. Also, such debates keep oneself sharp - no matter what side of the aisle you are on.

 

Wait...what?!?

 

To the negatives...

If you did not like the political section, you did not have to be there.
If you even once voiced an opinion on that section, you did it by choice.
Something drew your attention and made you think.

To the positives...

I am sad for us all that a venue for shared ideas has been snuffed out as unimportant.
The political section was only divisive to those who refused to read it with an open mind, and failed to see the merit of objective postings from different viewpoints.

To Julian...

Once we begin to curtail open discussion of ideas, whether political, ethical or societal, we are all damaged.

 

As much as I'd like to take credit for that, it wasn't me. I do hope things turned out OK for you.

 

Jeez, I stop paying attention for a couple days and look what happens.

I will miss the political subforum and think that this site was more well-rounded and better off for it. It kept people involved and a lot of good conversation came out of this. Kane is right about the crowd that it drew, as I am writing this there are 14 people viewing this thread, that says something about how many people took to it.

Sure some people were too adamant and confrontational about their views, some people were downright asses about them. But those people should have been removed, not the entire forum. When I first posted in the political forum I was naive and it showed. I later regretted those posts because I came to read the threads, understand peoples views, respect them, and then post my own knowing that most people would have similar respect for my views. And most did, while most of the debates may have been one-sided, the people that had the best views, were the most respected and respected the most are those that should be allowed to continue their discussions. I respect guys like Franc, Kane, radmanly, JHM2K, mdaniels and more and its largely because of the political discussions.

I fear that Franc and John are right that with the political forum gone this site will become a shell of what is was. We lost the Jokes Forum and now this, so what will keep the veterans coming back? They know everything they can about our car so eventually they may just stop posting at all. After that this site will just become an archive where people can search for information they need but provide no further input. Before I clicked on this thread I looked at one about a Chrysler TC, someone looking to trade their 2004 Mustang, and another looking to trade a 350Z. What is that about? Remove those dumb posts rather than the political forum. Mdaniels is correct about using the forum, if you can pay to get rid of the ads then there can be a disclaimer we can all agree to in order to use the political forum; if you don't like it, don't use it, if you repeatedly offend then you are removed.

This was a poor, poor decision.

 

Like the vast majority of your posts Caddy, this was another excellent and well thought, and expressed post. I really enjoyed your input, and most of the times I learned something from you and a couple of things that made me re-think a position I might have held. Thank you! i've appreciated our time here. Mark