The factory intake manifold is history. I'm building two smaller sheet metal intakes, one for each head similar to how the SRT6 is set up. There is a pic of the supercharger bolted to the engine on the "show your engine bay" thread. Eatons are twisted roots style blowers like the SRT6 uses. You can pick up a used one on ebay super cheap. My entire conversion cost less than $1000.

 

hope it works out, what do you plan on doing with fuel and ecu?, and is there room for all the supercharger parts

 

why toss the manifold out, when you can close off the long runners and run boost through the shorties? saves you time and money doing a custom fabbed set up. also this is a two or three piece manifold, I believe it can be opened up and guted if neccesary, should act like an air pressure dampening chanber to soften the pressure spikes from bliped throttle.

please explain chuck.

 

I thought about trying to use the manifold, but it is magnesium, ultra thin walled, and I needed a solid base to mount the supercharger. My conclusion was that MB had the best idea for installation location. With the factory manifold in place my only option would have been to try to cut and mount the sc inside the manifold which would be more of a headache imo.
If I were using a centrifugal type blower I would have definately incorporated the factory manifold.

As for fuel I have switched to 21# hr @ 3 bar injectors and running a B.E.G.I. adjustable fmu. Running a lower base fuel pressure with a more aggressive ratioed fmu. Also running methanol/water injection instead of an inntercooler. Space is a big factor in this decision. Although there should be room for a water to air unit in the future. I may end up using other piggybacks if I run into problems.
I think if I can have the bypass valve close after the ecu switches from closed to open loop I'll be able to avoid cel's popping as well as excessive tire spin. The only other concern is the MAF voltage limitation. The car is running a ton of timing so there shouldn't be a problem with that. My whole goal is to retain a factory feel and gas mileage at low throttle and tons of torque at wot.

 

well get to it, lol, i really hope this works out for you, it gives me some hope

 

i love the fact that you're using a charger that can be had for so cheap! heck, my dad has on sitting in his garage off my mom's grand prix. it needs a rebuild, or exchange. i believe its the same as the ford, although i'm not possitive. how much boost do those charger put out with factory pullies?

 

That depends on the crank pulley you are using. The eaton is more of a low pressure pump. I've seen some people running 18 psi but they are really inefficient above 12psi. Yes , they are super cheap. I bid on about 20 of them before I got my 60k mile unit w/shipping for $150 . A rebuild runs about $500. You can also port them to run over 700cfm. I'm running mine stock since our engine displacement is near the smallest reccommended use. M90 is 90 cubic inches of displacement per revolution or 1.5 liters. I posted the equation for getting your pulley ratio on ''calculating supercharger speed'' thread. I've been into turbos for so long a lot of the supercharger stuff is new to me. Its actually easier to setup though. The output is more linear.

 

will someone please explain why i can't take a charger off a srt-6 and bolt it on to a na, 6 spd. just looking for the logical answers

 

Well, to be perfectly literal about it, you can take the charger off the srt-6 and bolt it on to an "na, 6 spd".

You can.

But what do you hope to do after you've bolted the thing on, exactly?

 

from what it sounds like to me, that is indeed an option for us at this point. most likely we'd have to use a different pulley for lower boost, and all the other fuel management things we've been looking at for other adders. i truely believe this to be an easy option!

 

Easy indeed, but also costly. Thats the only reason I'm making my own stuff. I read a lot about having the ecu reflashed or reprogrammed on here but it just dosen't make sense to me with the forced induction. The factory programming is fine for no boost driving and fmus work well to control the afr when under boost. If you are going to pull all those parts from a SRT it may be just as cost effective to pull the whole motor and ecu.

 

i am totally sating to take the charger and run low boost however possible, and the stock ecu out of the na will not be able to adjust enough for low boost? there is no way to make that happen?, or would it be better to take the ecu from the 6 and use that to tune, also what about fuel? just bigger injectors? but somehow you need to change the duty cycle of the injectors right?, idk thinking out loud let me know how hard it would actually be and how much if anyone has an idea, because i am seriously thinking about doing it.

 

Tyler,

I think at this point you're asking the right questions and I would pick up a copy of Corky Bell's "Maximum Boost" if I were you.

 

you guys can't use an SRT6 ecu in the NA car, unless you pull out the the wiring for the RF ring and have the original srt6 key transmitter chip that went with that cars key. too much hassle to swap parts in unless you have a wrecked srt to transfer the parts over.

Your better off staying low boost for a while, until some one can make 8:1 pistons, and no point in installing thicker gaskets if you already tore the motor down, kinda a hacky way to drop the CR

 

All good points. Tyler, the fmu increases the fuel pressure as boost rises adding more fuel without having to adjust the amount of time the fuel injectors are open. It works well, otherwise vortech and all the other major manufacturers of sc's would not use them. I'm not touching my ecu unless I absolutely have to. The only other tuning mod I might use will be a SAFC.

 

Believe it or not, the adjustable rising rate FPR (FMU) was originally specified for supercharged applications and not turbocharged. The adjustable rising rate FPR can be used for turbocharged applications, but one has to be careful because the turbocharger has different part throttle (vacuum) airflow characteristics depending on the gear chosen and the load. For example, at a few mm hg the volumetric efficiency differs greatly if the turbo is boosting or not. Since the FMU cannot read the throttle position (only the vacuum), it could easily underfuel the intake charge causing a lean condition, and in some cases detonation.

With a supercharger, the maximum VE of the engine is dictated solely by the engine rpm. Therefore, the VE of the engine can be predictably measured using the manifold air pressure.

With appropriate tuning, the Rising Rate FPR can be used for both turbo and supercharger applications. The tuning is the key.

Every once in a while an intelligent young fellow new to the tuning scene comes on and asks "ok, if all it takes is a wideband to tune an engine, why do people say it's so hard?" The truth is that technology has come so far in the past 10 years to the point where one can get on the internet and get the tools and information required to successfully tune on a small budget. The challenge nowadays is not in getting the tools to do the tuning, but in asking the right questions and getting the right answers. I'm still learning myself.

 

i hear ya, so are you saying that the stock ecu will be ok to run low boost on and will adjust enough on its own?, ive always had the impression it won't be enough, and i didn't catch anything on injectors, you are bumping up right? what size?, and you guys seem very intelligent in this as i am not too familiar with supercharging just feel its the best option for the car at the time. what exactly would i need off the srt-6 to make this happen. I am just wondering if i found a wrecked srt-6 if i could grab the charger and injectors and make it work, what would be my easiest way of doing this. I will have to look at the srt-6 setup which i have not, how is the air even forced into this engine or where is the charger mounted on the srt-6 anyone have good pics of this? if i could get the charger mounted on and injectors and the ecu would adjust enough for low boost then i could def. have custom pulleys made at a local shop who has done one for my buddies boosted integra. what would i use for fuel management confused there? i am still learning here all this help is great.

 

No. Never depend on any ECU to "adapt" on its own. No factory ECU will do that for any car.

What we are saying is that you have three options for fuel management:

1. Standalone.
2. Piggyback.
3. FMU.

Pick one. You don't have the option of using any factory ECU except the one already on your car. None. Nada.

 

Also, you need to seriously learn about how engines work. You don't need thermodynamics classes. You just need to understand how the fuel pressure, fuel pump, injectors, spark plugs and ECU all work together to make power.

Like I said, pick up Corky Bell's book. His book is widely acknowledged as the "Turbo Bible".

 

i do understand just trying to learn this side of things, i have previously owned a 86 charger shelby (turbo) , 94 mustang gt all motor, and i just recently sold my 05 srt-4 that i built all on my own basically but the only thing i have ever dealt with was turboes, now basically i am learning the side to supercharging. I am trying to figure out a easy way to boost it with a charger. Thats what i was thinking that the stock ecu would not be ok, just got out of your posts that it would, so i would opt for a piggy back unit, but what are the differences in price and quality, which one would i be best off with, i would say a engine management system.