It is kinda hard to change numbers I have previously posted may times. And Eurocharged is frequently on the forum viewing and posting. They would take some umbrage were anyone cavalier with their statistics. Hence, I do not change them.


So surely, you must be referring to someone else.

 

2005 SRT coupe SSB, sprint booster,Paddle shifters, NW dual CAI, NW intake manifolds, NW polished y pipe, NW catch can, NW coolant sep. kit, NW belt saver kit, LET HE, Johnson 30 pump, ASP 178,brembo brakes 8 pot/4pot drilled and slotted rotors, SS brake lines, Porterfield pads, Motul 600 fluid, Koni adj. shocks, CCW custom wheels, Zeitronix wide band,dashdaq & 4 in 1 guage, Trip pillar pod, oil temp, oil pressure, Illuminated door sills, NW fuel management system, Wavetrac LSD... Dyno 364 whp

Lot's of money there pal.
Yeah, I don't believe I have half of that stuff on my NA. Or the SRT for that matter. But then neither is exactly stock.


The SRT is good for 12.4 second quarters. I haven't done any drag strip with the NA. Maybe, now that the St Louis Gateway track is reopened I'll try a Tuesday evening of runs. Just for the fun.
But seriously the NA Crossie is not a drag strip car.

 

Walter Lewin, professor emeritus of Physics, MIT: "Any measurement, without knowledge of the uncertanty, is MEANINGLESS."

Emphasis mine - Josh is right, those numbers are MEANINGLESS.

 

That is why you must set a base line and then use the same dyno and tuner to have an accurate picture of the change made to the engine. Even if the baseline is incorrect, the change is correctly measurable. So a 25% WHP improvement off the same dyno can be applied to what ever Engine spec the manufacturer published. Assuming, of course, IT is accurate you can reasonbly predict your new Crank HP...

 

I do believe we are talking about the Euro Charged dyno in Chicago.
We could ask EC if their dyno spits out numbers that are so different. If so then we might as well save our money or they should get another one wouldn't you say? But I doubt it.

With large variations like this we would have no idea what improvements are made with the mods. You could spend $500 and find that you have readings giving less power than before.

So I think the numbers are wrong as I stated.

 

OK, so you have a baseline of 143 hp set on the EC dyno, you then modify and finally get a reading of 190 hp. What is the new crank hp?

 

Sure if it's a back to back pull without removing your car from it's position on the rollers.

The guys on the R6 forum put the bike on, strap it down, run it. Leave it in place without messing with any software or anything, put the mod on, and run it again. A few of them have said if you run it, get off of the rollers, turn right back around on to the rollers, strap it, your numbers will be different.

There's too many variables. I just want to put mine on to get that rough number and go back when I finish the car for another rough number.

 

The only thing that matters is torque successfully applied to pavement resulting in controlled forward motion. If I had it all to do over again, I would have started with the Wavetrac LSD and new rear tires. Only then would I have gotten the tune, pulley, and CAI for more HP.

Live/learn

 

Most of us are happy with a "rough" number. Some want it "proven." And they will spend hours on the forum pressing a useless petty argument.

Like that really matters.


Your butt meter is all that matters.

 

Agreed! lol.

 

Then I guess you gotta ask yourself, why bother stating numbers?, unless your butt meter has numbers

 

That's just being silly.

The reality is, as Josh exampled, Dyno's are different.

For those who insist on being cute and petty.....


This from carand driver...

"There's no really accurate way to get engine horsepower from a chassis dyno," says Matt Harwood, marketing coordinator for Mustang Dynamometer, a major supplier of chassis dynos in Twinsburg, Ohio.




Is Your Dyno Lying?

Measuring your horsepower depends on whose yardstick you use.

• May 2004
• BY AARON ROBINSON
• PHOTOGRAPHY BY DAVID DEWHURST

• Horsepower is like good luck. It can't be seen, touched, or tasted, but you know when the inventory is low. How much do you have? Go measure it. The best place to put your luck to the yardstick is in Las Vegas. The best place to measure your horsepower is on a dynamometer. In both cases, results have been known to vary.

Turns out that different horsepower dynamometers will spit out different results on the same car depending on their design and how carefully the tester manages the variables. When ambient air temperature and pressure were all that yesterday's carburetors cared about, factoring in the variables was easy. But modern cars are gradually becoming too smart for what was once a simple test. Engines trying to squeeze out more horsepower are run by watchful computers with better sensors that are able to differentiate between speeding down a freeway with a cooling headwind and spinning the dyno drums in a stuffy room. The technology of today's cars needs to be factored into your readings along with variations from dyno type to dyno type, or your horsepower numbers may be hazy, too.
Recall that horsepower is a unit measuring the rate at which an engine performs work. By current industry standards, one horsepower equals 550 pounds lifted at the rate of one foot every second. Automakers figure a car's oomph by hitching the engine to a machine that puts a controlled load generated by an electric or hydraulic brake on the flywheel. They plumb the intake and coolant to external fixtures that simulate on-road airflow and then run the engine from idle to redline. The engine dyno measures torque at the crankshaft using a variety of means and then uses a math formula—torque times rpm divided by 5252 (a sort of gearhead's constant, derived by dividing . . . oh, never mind). Horsepower comes after the equal sign. Thousands of hours of testing produce a peak horsepower number that prints in the dealer's brochure.
For the rest of us, rather than unbolt the engine and rent a multimillion-dollar dyno room, it's much easier to simply drive the whole car onto a chassis dyno that measures horsepower where the tires meet the tarmac. Throughout the U.S. are shops with such machines, some even capable of handling four-wheel-drive cars. Ordinary citizens pay anywhere from $35 to $100 to run the car up to redline three or four times, the tires turning rollers monitored by the dyno's computer. Eventually, the computer spits out a horsepower graph that you can take to your next bar-stool drag race.




But before you pop the clutch on your tongue, consider that a chassis dyno doesn't measure horsepower at the flywheel but at the tires after various driveline losses have subtracted their drag. Friction from rubbing gear faces, inertia from heavy shafts, and the stirring of oatmeal-like gear lube all reduce the advertised horsepower reaching the tires and, hence, the dyno.
c Some tuners use the so-called 15/20 rule, which assumes a 15-percent driveline loss for manual transmissions and 20 percent for automatics. But, says Harwood, "I've seen losses as high as 35 percent." So unless it's printed in the brochure or was measured on a true engine dyno or by a tuner with tons of experience with your particular brand of car, any flywheel horsepower number quoted by a hot rodder under the shade tree is most likely just a calculated guess.
More important, did your car run on the dyno as it would on the street? If it's the latest model, chances are good it may not have, says BMW tuning wizard Steve Dinan. An afternoon spent at his Bavarian speed emporium in Morgan Hill, California, convinced us that cars are gradually becoming too computerized for the simple dyno test.
Dinan's cars are wired with a battery of sensors that report when the airflow over the bumper is too little, when the inlet air is too hot, and when the water temperatures in the block and radiator are too close together (most turbocharged and supercharged cars also "know" when their intercoolers aren't cooling enough). The computer reacts by backing off the spark and turning up the richness—and as a result, turning down the power—to prevent catastrophic engine meltdowns.
To prove his point, Dinan bolts to his Dynopack one of his 2003 Dinan M5s, heavily tweaked to make a claimed 470 horsepower at the crank (he expects about 415 at the wheels). With the hood closed and no external fan blowing air into the radiator, the car wheezes out just 334 horsepower at the wheels. An LCD data logger on the dashboard reveals the air-fuel ratio from the engine computer. Approaching redline, the BMW's computer richens the mixture all the way to 9.5:1 as the underhood temperatures soar.
That's one thick mix, practically charcoal briquettes blowing out of the tailpipe. But then, with the M5 running in fifth gear (the 1:1 gear ratio with the least friction, preferred by dyno testers), the computer expects 159 mph worth of cooling wind blast around the horsepower peak. It's getting nothing, and it knows.Continued...

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-lying-feature

 

You have put these figures out there and you want people to agree that they are correct. Nobody with an NA has got to 270 hp at the crank yet, 260 would be pushing it.
When push comes to shove you say the numbers do not count, but you have claimed higher figures and never posted a dyno chart to prove it. Your did say that you got 193 whp at EC though, the same as Valk.
I think new members should not be left thinking that these high numbers are attainable.

 

The only REAL way to gauge horsepower/torque increase is to average together 3 1/4 mile runs at a drag strip with electronic timers, do the mods, then go back to the same strip and do the same runs. ( same temperature / humidity as previous runs )
Just MHO, take it or leave it

 

you are mistaken,,,I don't care if you agree.

 

I think you nailed it Dave, silly thing to do don't you think?

 

The highest dyno figure you give us is 193 hp.
How can that be associated to a crank hp rating of 270 hp?

 

Pretty straightforward. All-in-all the best way to establish changes to your output is to use the same dyno, same fuel, in similar atmospheric conditions, etc.

Personally, it comes down to the timeslip. Any dyno can give you the numbers you expect to see from your work, where the rubber meets the tarmac is all that matters (to me).

 

This is all true but what I disagree with is figures that offer the newbie here an expectation of highly exaggerated hp ratings.
I think we should be grounded in our numbers and not offer pie in the sky numbers that will lead to disappointment after spending time and good money trying to achieve these fictional goals.

We have a member who claims gross hp of 270 to 290 and yet has only admitted to 193 hp on the EC dyno and hints of secret mods. I think this is truly misleading to a newbie here.
Or am I missing something?

 

M'eh... I say let folks advertise whatever they want and let the viewer decide. And should anyone meet another member's car on pavement, that's where the truth can be exposed. -Again, that's just me!