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crossfire battery: my experience

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Old 01-17-2021, 09:49 AM
phil alvirez's Avatar
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Default crossfire battery: my experience

this is in case you want to know the condition of your battery.
this is my experience.
am bringing it in hope that there is something that is of some use to anybody. if any1 has different experience and wants to talk about this subject too, you can start a post anytime, as i did. or if any1 wants to discuss or ask anything in more detail, please feel free to reach me at my address. just click at my name at the left upper corner, send me a private message.
when i got my xf and found this forum, i also learned that the battery is subject to lots of demands from the many components of the car, including the computer, and began a quest that has brought interesting results. this is to share with all what i have learned.
before, all that i knew regarding the battery in a car, was that the moment it takes longer to start, you have to buy a new 1 asap, or you run the risk of getting stranded. period. no data, technical or otherwise. so i began to investigate. like: a 12 volts battery is 12.6, not just 12 v. and whatever below that figure is no good for the battery: it shortens its life to be below it.
i found this chart: https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/299770918947414570/
so i searched for a tester. found this:
Amazon Amazon
simple to use, low cost, and with items that i couldnt find in others that are way more expensive. with it i learned many things that didnt know existed, and have changed my knowledge of the situation beyond my wildest dream. now i know all that i need about it.
at the time i got it i put it to my battery and was shocked! the tester tells you if the battery is good; if it is low and has to be recharged, or that it has to be replaced. and it told me that it was no good and had to be replaced. it was practically discharged: it showed 11.8 volts ! and when a battery gets discharged that low, it is not a matter of charging: it is telling that something is wrong, and you have to find out and take the necessary steps to correct it. also, at this time it was exactly 4 years old, and i had been warned that it had to be replaced at 4 years. so i got a replacement.
i was told that an AGM is better so i got 1 and installed in my car. later i learned that the reason was telling me that it had to be replaced was that the SOH was low.
as the old 1 was going to be recycled, i got the idea of using it for tests that otherwise i wouldnt dare to do with the good 1. the 1st thing i did was write down the figures the tester provided, even if at the time i didnt know a thing about them. then charged it overnight. it went up to 12.6 v. then placed in storage for some time. and when i checked it from time to time i was surprised that kept the charge. didnt expect this, so i was curious. the charger that i got, even low cost, seemed to fulfill my needs. i was to learn that it was a great decision.
Amazon Amazon
then i decided to try the option that says: "restore" (it shows "PUL" at the screen, meaning pulse). it stops when done. and to my surprise, it reads 13 volts. after letting it rest so i could get more realistic figures, i took all that it collects and compared with the previous, when it was discharged. these are the readings that this tester provides: volts; CCA; SOC; SOH, IR.
from wiki: State of health (SoH) is a figure of merit of the condition of a battery (or a cell, or a battery pack), compared to its ideal conditions. The units of SoH are percent points (100% = the battery's conditions match the battery's specifications). typically, a battery's SoH will be 100% at the time of manufacture and will decrease over time and use. However, a battery's performance at the time of manufacture may not meet its specifications, in which case its initial SoH will be less than 100%.
State of charge (SoC) is the level of charge of an electric battery relative to its capacity. The units of SoC are percentage points (0% = empty; 100% = full)
Cold cranking amperes (CCA): the amount of current a battery can provide at 0 °F (−18 °C) for 30 seconds while maintaining a voltage of at least 7.2 volts. ... For example, a 250 CCA battery will have more starting power than a 250 CA (or MCA) one, and likewise a 250 CA will have more than a 250 HCA one.
internal resistance:
When the power source delivers current, the measured voltage output is lower than the no-load voltage; the difference is the voltage drop (the product of current and resistance) caused by the internal resistance. The concept of internal resistance applies to all kinds of electrical sources and is useful for analyzing many types of electrical circuits.
the 1 that tells us if the charger is really doing something-and how much-is internal resistance (shown as 'res' in the screen). here i want to elaborate about the importance of internal resistance and sulfating. a battery gets sulfated as it goes. this means that some of the space is filled with sulfate, and this reduces the space for charging, so the figures get smaller. no more 12.6. and so on. and also, the internal resistance increases. and, as with this tester you have these figures available, you can measure the desulfating. so far, i havent found any source that sells chargers that claim that desulfate, that can prove that their products really do so (and there are zillions of products that say they desulfate). and also, neither can tell how much. but with this humble tester we get that figure so we know that the charger is desulfating, and with the IR readings before and after you know how much.
in this case, the final figure would be next time i use this battery for a while and do the testing and compare with the last 1. so far sulfating seems the most important factor to hurt the performance of a battery, and there are serious studies that prove that pulse desulfating is the best bet: https://thesai.org/Downloads/Volume8...Desulfator.pdf
http://www.vershv.narod.ru/sdarticle.pdf the interesting thing of all of this is that the battery was low for supposedly old age. it could be recharged but still was not in good condition because it was sulfated. and there was no way to check this if we didnt have this tester that gets SOH. the key figure was the SOH. if it is low, no matter if volts seem ok, and even CCA, it will not hold.
and this is what the tester provided with SOH. it reflects the ability to deliver specified performance compared to a fresh battery. is a measure of long term capability. it shows how much available energy has been consumed and how much is left. on the other hand, SOC represents short term capability.
to make things easier to understand with an analogy, readings from SOH can be compared with readings of the odometer, and those of the SOC with the fuel gauge. problem is, that even if showing 100% here, this could be really 80%, as the readings are of a fuel tank that has shrunk to 80%. that is because it is measuring the usable % at the time, that has been sulfated (20% in this case), compared to the possible when not being sulfated. it is just to tell when it has reached its full charge possible.
then, when desulfated with pulses, it improved its condition above the standard. way above. it went up to 13 volts. way above the supposed normal figure. and it is a 4 years battery. this proves that the parameters specified by manufacturers and sellers, are their way to sell more, which is their goal. and the battery has still more life for a good time. a typical example of a way to have the best kept secrets. and so there are other examples. but here the subject is battery.
anyway, with this we know the condition of a battery. no guessing. cold numbers. data. the battery is no longer a mystery, and we have the means to keep it in good shape for a longer time.
more data here: https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...-part-car.html
 

Last edited by phil alvirez; 04-22-2021 at 10:05 AM. Reason: q`1 subject
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:31 AM
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Default Re: crossfire battery: my experience

I always wondered what rechargeable meant.
 
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Old 02-08-2021, 09:22 AM
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Default Re: crossfire battery: my experience

using a charger like mine, SOC tells the % of charge the battery has regarding what it can take in its present condition. but this does not mean that it is the 100% of what the battery could take when new and in perfect shape. if the battery is sulfated, the original 100% drops to a number that you only could know if you get the SOH.
for instance, if SOH tells you 80%, that means 80% of 12.6v= 10.08v. and that figure is the 100% against which SOC reads the 80%=8.06v. meaning that your battery will not get more than 8.06v even if shows 100% charge. hence the importance of both SOC and SOH.
getting only CCA does not get as far as getting SOC and SOH. thats why Kent in his video was short of the real condition of the battery. volts could give a good figure, but only until checking CCA you can confirm that. if CCA is low you know that the battery cant hold the load. but still is not until you check SOC and SOH that you have the whole picture.
 

Last edited by phil alvirez; 02-08-2021 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 02-08-2021, 01:19 PM
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Default Re: crossfire battery: my experience

Phil, the only test we need is this:

Is the battery 48 or more months old?

If no, yer fine.
If yes - replace the battery. Today.

Even I forgot my own advice, let a battery go five years in the SE, now I need a seatbelt module. I've posted elsewhere here about that evening in 2016, where a weak battery failed me.
 
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Old 02-11-2021, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: crossfire battery: my experience

Thanks for posting the video. I have 10 batteries in vehicles here and any knowledge is helpful. Because you have brought attention to this topic I bought some upgraded testing equipment that I might have ignored otherwise. Previously I just owned one of those load meters that the speaker demonstrated at the beginning, a couple of mechanical chargers and some early model 4 amp de-sulfating digitals. Now I can stay on top of this..
 
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Old 02-11-2021, 08:28 AM
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Default Re: crossfire battery: my experience

Originally Posted by g wheels
Thanks for posting the video. I have 10 batteries in vehicles here and any knowledge is helpful. Because you have brought attention to this topic I bought some upgraded testing equipment that I might have ignored otherwise. Previously I just owned one of those load meters that the speaker demonstrated at the beginning, a couple of mechanical chargers and some early model 4 amp de-sulfating digitals. Now I can stay on top of this..
If you have 10 batteries to monitor, you might be interested in these :
https://www.batterytender.com/Batter...84370000000179
( note, if you have IPhone, then install the beta app )
 
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Old 02-11-2021, 09:40 AM
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Default Re: crossfire battery: my experience

Originally Posted by pizzaguy
Phil, the only test we need is this:

Is the battery 48 or more months old?

If no, yer fine.
If yes - replace the battery.

Even I forgot my own advice, let a battery go five years in the SE, now I need a seatbelt module. I've posted elsewhere here about that evening in 2016, where a weak battery failed me.
The way most retail batteries are made these days I would not trust any over 30 months. You are doing well if you can get through a winter at 36 months. You can pay more like Optima, but they do not give you much either; Check their warranty.
 
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Old 02-11-2021, 10:06 AM
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Default Re: crossfire battery: my experience

Originally Posted by zip439
The way most retail batteries are made these days I would not trust any over 30 months. You are doing well if you can get through a winter at 36 months. You can pay more like Optima, but they do not give you much either; Check their warranty.
Look at the manufacture date on the side of the battery, batteries on sale are older batteries and maybe half their life has gone already.
Get a fresh battery from a good manufacturer with a good warranty. Heavy batteries have more power, more weight = more power.
 
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Old 03-14-2021, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: crossfire battery: my experience

folks: this is if you want to know the condition of your battery. thats all.
am not telling any1 to do this. if any1 does not want to do anything and replace the battery until it dies, is his choice. or if any1 replaces it when it reaches anytime, again, is his choice.
i dont tell any what to do. this is technical stuff, for any to learn. thats all.
 
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Old 03-15-2021, 03:16 PM
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Default Re: crossfire battery: my experience

.


Just got a new Everstart MAXX H6 from wallyworld. The old one was still going strong but it was a few weeks shy of 8 years old. Install was a breeze, and I kept the old vent plug off the old battery (the new one came with that little plug on the plastic terminal cover). Always had that little vent on the other side (that little white box that attached onto/into the other side vent hole). Only $119.95 plus the fees, and maybe good for another 8 years?


.
 
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Old 05-30-2021, 08:14 AM
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Default Re: crossfire battery: my experience

conclusions
state of health is the key.

i have found the way to learn the real condition of the battery. it is by measuring the State Of Health (SOH).
( but of course, if some1 has found this too before me, please bring the link. i dont want to take credit if am not the 1st)
1-first, the way it was done was by checking volts.
2-but then Kent Bersgma proved that it is not enough; he said that you have to measure cold cranking amps (CCA).
but then i learned that the best way is by getting the state of health.
before, you had to calculate it, but recently some1 has found the way to get it directly with a tester like this:

Amazon Amazon

thats all you need. now you can learn the actual condition of a battery, with facts, cold figures.
now, if you want to learn what on earth is that SOH, here is a link that explains it in great detail. the thing is, it was written when there were no devices that could do it automatically. just learn what is explained. https://www.mpoweruk.com/soh.htm
 

Last edited by phil alvirez; 05-30-2021 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 09-03-2021, 12:55 PM
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Default Re: crossfire battery: my experience

this is really informative and helpful. I've quickly learned that the battery in an XF is extremely important, more so than in most cars. You clearly have spent alot of time studying it all. thanks for sharing your knowledge!
 
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Old 09-03-2021, 03:20 PM
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Default Re: crossfire battery: my experience

you are welcome. is just silly that we go through life driving cars and dont give a second to what on earth the battery does and what to do to keep it in good shape, and, as you say, it is of great importance for our cars.
 

Last edited by phil alvirez; 09-03-2021 at 03:27 PM.
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